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Thread: Ra: how to beat him and how to play him.

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    Member Worshipper Gigaus's Avatar
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    Ra: how to beat him and how to play him.

    I think this is the forth time I've tried to post my thoughts on Ra, and the forum has eaten them all, so instead of posting in the other thread I'll just make my own....Oh, and combine all three previous posts for the sake of it. Hope you enjoy walls of text...
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    The first post is explaining his weaknesses and how to counter him, the second post is how to play him half decently.
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    =========== THIS PART IS FLUFF AND ME POINTING OUT STUFF, YOU CAN SKIP IT
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    From what I gathered from the other/main thread, most consider Ra overpowered and in need of a nerf. First, give me a minute to laugh at that...Ha, ha ha, ha.....Now, this was based on the notion that Pro leaguers and ranked hell pick him commonly and ban him commonly. Let me make this clear: Ranked and Pro meta doesn't matter...No, really, it doesn't. Do you know why? Because it's their job as pro leaguers to do bat-crap crazy things and break the meta to tactically flank their opponates....so what if one person used Ra well, and then every wannabe after them starts spamming Ra to be 'as good'? I could pick Ares and do good with him, or Zhong Kia and wipe floors, but that doesn't mean that's they're overpowered; It means they actually means someone has the skill to use an underpowered character well. It's like whining about someone killing you with a pistol in CoD or something when you're running around with an instakill weapon. Whether or not a character is popular is not good criteria to buff or nerf them; Their stats, usability, strengths and weaknesses are though. We already have gone through two times where we had first and third class gods with no second class; First being the braindead gods where you press A to watch your enemies explode, and Third being gods who are so useless that only show boaters use them. Ra used to be a third class for months to a year, and is only becoming a second class again barely.
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    Now, I've played Ra a lot; I've got legendary with him, and know how to use him, and how not to use him. Most of what I see from the other thread is 'He heals are too good', 'his passive is too powerful', and 'he does so much damage! he's best mid.' Lemme give you some insight. One, his heals are technically second best; Aphro's are the best period. It's heals over time, AoE, and has the second highest heal rate in the game, bar self healing....It's stationary though, has a very long cooldown, especially for a heal, and requires said players to be in it for the whole duration to get the full effect. Hel, Guan, Change', Hades to a degree, and Cupid to another all deal in burst heal; As long as you're in range, you get the full effect upfront. More than that, all of them have extra low cooldowns; Ra's has at minimum a 13 second CD...Hel spams heals at 5 seconds, as does Change', and Guan gets a passive CDR bonus for every god in range of his heal, so he can get around 7 seconds per heal. Once Ra puts down that healing circle, he and his team aren't going to have it for awhile-- So if they leave it before it's done, or take significant damage while in it, it's wasted. Ao's Tornados, Posidon's Whirlpool, Aphro's birds, Anubis' hands, pretty much any AoE with or without dots will counter said circle; Either by doing serious damage, or forcing people out.
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    Additionally, people are calling for it to not heal Minions.........Why? First, Every single public heal heals minions, bar Aphro's, so if you have an issue with minions getting healed, don't pin it on Ra. Second, that's pretty much Ra only boon outside ofa full on teamfight. When I play Ra, I have two objectives; Push the lane, and get the minons under the tower to heal them, and keep my team alive with heals. If you take away his ability to heal minions, and he will not be used ever, he lacks the pushing power to do so. Also, remember Ra has only ever gotten nerfs, especially on his heals. The contrabution percent has gone down signifcantly, the base has gone down as well, and there is no de/buff on it anymore. Anymore more nerfs to it and it will be at best an occasional heal.
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    And on the note of pushing, Ra has some fairly weak pushing until late game, at which point everyone has high pushing anyway. It's not until around level 7 to 10 that his solar beam 1 can one shot archers, and that's usually because of item controbution anyway. Most other mids-- Ao, Pos, Zues, Hades, Loki, Anubis, the like-- Can clear both Archers and Warriors with one ability in one application. So at minimum, Ra is going to need to use two abilities-- or twice the mana in other words-- just ot clear a creep wave, and that doesn't even include heavy warriors until late game....Do try and explain why that is good pushing, when he has to use two abilities, twice the mana, and basically spend most of his CD on creeps, when every other character can either AA them to death, or clear them with one ability...or both? Sure, late game it's faster, sorta, but you still need to use two on your own to clear heavies.
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    And then there's his passive....the most utilitary passive in the game. All it gives him is speed based off his items.....Yeah, that's so much worse than Getting free Magic power for leveling skills, or for having Mana, free crit chance just for hitting something, or free healing just for existing, or a debuff that takes your protection, or buffs enemy attacks. Really? The big issue with Ra is he gets free speed?...I can see why it can be an issue; A number of people said it makes him easier to rotate, or flee, which is true....Except there's one big flaw with that argument; Ra has no defenses, Hard CC, or escapes...What 'defense' he has is a slow, that's worthless withouth Iso gem, and easily countered with actives, passives, or a whole item. I will say this plain as day: If you let Ra rotate, you are doing it wrong and need to play better.I don't mean this as an insult, it's simply defacto truth. If you let Ra rotate, it's not that he has an amazing passive, it's that you're not doing your job-- That or he has someone backing him up, in which case, fair enough. It isn't like Posidon who can CC you to death, or knock you back if you follow, or Ao who will bar the way with Dots; Ra only has damage, a rooted heal, and a weak AoE slow. He can't jump anywhere without a blink, he can't root you or cc you to get around you or get away, all he has is front loaded damage, and a heal that he has to stay in one place for.
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    =========== THIS IS THE PART EXPLAINING HOW TO COUTNER HIM
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    TO DEAL WITH HIS PASSIVE/ROTATING
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    Now it's all well and good to say that it's counterable, all of this, but it's no good if no one says how....So I will, in reverse order. If you see Ra rotating, engage him. Simple as that-- either butt poke him and remind him you're behind him, which will either lead to him turning and fighting, putting him very out of place, or taking whole sections of damage as he tries to flee. Or, if you can, get in front of him and block him off; Ra has no means, Bar blink, to get around you in the jungle. Body block, root, stun, generally get in his way and he won't be able to counter it properly. From either point forward, it's a mattero keeping him seperated and in the jungle; He will either be forced to flee and take massive damage and die if he can't, or start using his abilities which have long CD. Keep this in mind: [b]Only Ra's 1, the solar beam, has a low CD. All of his other abilities have 7 second and 11 second CD. As long as you can dodge his 1, he will not be able to do enough damage to you to make a signifcant dent, and as long as you can force him to heal, and then push him out of said heal, he will be screwed six ways to sunday. Ra's Boon is his sustain with his HP; Mana wise he uses it up very, very fast. And on that note, he does not have much HP to begin with. With the right build he'll be okay, but screwed in most others. Ra is a glass cannon, plain and simple, and as long asyou can use your escapes to dodge his attacks, you're good. And as long as you keep him seperated from his team, he is very easy to handle one on one.
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    TO DEAL WITH HIS HEALING
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    His healing is easy, and I've already said it; Use an AoE, and force people out. If you don't have an Aoe on hand, you have a few options. Weakening curse has enough range to safely use and null the circle's healing; Divine Ruin on Sobke, Change, or Baccus comboed with their anti heal abilities will bring all hit down to 10% healing, and 0% if you get Pestilence; Anything that has a dot, or does very high burst damage will soft counter healing; And anything that physically pushes or pulls them out of the circle will work of course. Ra's healing is simultaniously the greatest and weakest healing in the game. It has a very long CD, and is rooted in one place; If they stay in for the whole thing, it'll probably heal them to max...If they even get half, it's not going to be much. Once that healing Circle is gone and used, they won't be getting another for awhile. And yes, it's great for a team fight, especially with slow gem, but that's usually only when it's a clusterfk and all involved have no choice in fighting then and there. But if the fight, or the people it needs to heal, are moved away, it's a wasted skill. Make Ra waste it; Go for him and force him to heal himself, or pull/push the people out of it en mass.
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    TO DEAL WITH HIS LANING AND PUSHING
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    And lastly on his pushing and damage....Just kill his minions...Ra can not push on his own; He doesn't have the health to solo a tower with his heals like some, and he only heals the minions, he doesn't buff their defenses. Clear out the wave-- and pay special attention to the heavies-- and his pushing is halted; Like when he is rotating he is forced to retreat. And on his damage? His AoE's are weak, and utilities at best, while his high damage skills are delayed straight and narrow skill shots. I noticed people are saying 'his 2 is used to get in range and land those shots; Yes, yes it is, as well as used to try and break a chase. My advice; if you'regoing up against a Ra, get winged stick/blade, or Sprint. If you're not a god that has a slow immunity [Ao comes to mind], these two will take away Ra's only advantage in landing his snipes. Once he loses his slow he basically needs to body check you to land those shots reliably, and THAT is easily dodge. Best way I can put it is: Ra's beams are shotguns. They have high damage, and at close range hit like a truck; but are easily dodged at close range because of the narrow cone. Simply double back on yourself, and doge INTO Ra so he runs right passed you, he'll hit thin air.
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    TO DEAL WITH FIGHTING HIM
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    and for his Ulti snipe, that's very simple; If you're fighting a Ra, save your escape for that specificly. It has a channel time and doesn't cripple like most; Even if you aren't sure if he's aiming for you-- MOVE. As a Ra player, I can tell you right now a good Ra will have learned to snipe and predict their target's movement. It is completely about positioning, and either predicting obvious movement, or psyching out their target. The only way to counter that is to get the hell out of the way, or use Ageis, or Spike Shield. On that, Spike Shield is amazing against Ra's ulti, as it will force him to take a large chunk of damage he can't afford. Combo that with Nemsis's sheild if you can, and Ra will explode.
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    Beyond that, Ra is a below average mage in need of a buff. His HP is absimal, his natural Mana an MP5 is fairly low, and his movement is VERY low....which is the 'balancing' factor about his passive; He's movement is lowered to accomodate his passive and make it so he's slightly above average.
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    see next post
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    Last edited by Gigaus; 05-14-2014 at 02:21 PM.

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    Member Worshipper Gigaus's Avatar
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    THIS PART IS HOW TO PLAY RA A BIT BETTER, AND SEE STUFF FROM THEIR PROSPECTIVE

    And with that part done, I'd like to inpart some insight on how to play Ra half decently, as well as some of the struggles Ra goes through in a match.
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    THOUGHTS ON ROLLS
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    I rarely play Ra support, mainly because building him tank is no longer viable. Thanks to hi rez's amazing itemization and obvious bias towards physical characters, you can't build Ra with much Physical or Magical defense with any relevent passive, let alone MP. Sure, he can be tanky, but given he's a mage and and a mage with very low HP and the like, building him tank is less viable than builing him pure or semi mage. It's possable, and there's people that can do it well, I'm just not one of them anymore. Now that said, I've played Ra Solo, Mid, and Jungle before. Mid is what I 'grew up' with in using Ra, so I know a good deal of how to handle it and who you'll face. Your goal in mid is two fold; Clear the minions on the other side before they can clear your's, and force your opponate out of mid. This is especially key for Ra, as if they pop your minions before you can their's you're going to be in a very awkward position as you either need to focus the creeps, or your incoming opponate. On the flip side, you can't push unless your enemy is out of the lane.
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    DOS AND DON'TS FOR LANING AND PUSHING
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    most Ra's you will see will clear a wave and then run up to the enemy tower to harrass; This is the dumbest mistake you can make. Unless they are very low on HP and you can kill them with your 1-- or if they retreated to the second tower and you can snipe them with your ulti-- do not, I repeat, do NOT rush the enemy tower. You do not have a proper escape, and while your heal can help it is quickly found useless. You need to get under your tower or have back up to survive if the enemy jungler, or anyone on their team, decides to rotate and gank you. If you want a kill, save your Ulti. Wait until they are either recalling, or on the straight and narrow on one side. Now, as to pushing, you want to save your heal for creep waves with at least one Heavy minion, all others will die quick. Early game, healing the whole of your minions is good, but it's a better idea to heal your melee's and get both their melee's and their Archers in the circle. Another trick is to place the Circle as the wave is coming, have it to one side AND get the archer wave; Place it so it hits the enemy god. The melee minions will agrro on you and not deal damage to your minions while they still take damage. Archers won't last long under the heal circle either, so as long as they don't move they will die while their melees are in your area. This works in both solo and mid
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    JUNGLING WITH RA; MY LEAST FAVORITE ROLL
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    As for jungling...This is tricky, but very rewarding. Have a jungler in mid, or in solo, and your Ra mid; not only will the enemy team be confused, it will likely catch them flat footed. Ra is not good at engaging in the jungle, but he excels in self sustain and creep clearing, as well as camp stealing. The Order of Damage-- That is the order in which damage is applied-- Goes dots, burst [like a jump,hel's disk burst, or Nem's slice], and then projectile; This is why you see gods with Dots like Ao, Arachne, and Loki get kills after applying their dots when someone else landed the 'killing blow'. Ra's healing circle can be used offencively to steal a camp from an enemy jungler while out of sight, and when comboed with Iso gem can aide greatly in an escape. On top of that, a wandering healer makes things a lot eaiser on the lanes early on. Early game, healers have to stay in their lane, to push or support; If your jungler has a public heal, they can dip into a lane, help with the push, reup the laner and then keep pushing. With Ra specificly, his slow make's a chase very short, and his heal is good in turning a botched gank around. Add into that if you can get eyes on an enemy god while you're in the jungle, they won't be expecting his ulti burning through them. A ward in tower range while Ra sits right behind it in the jungle lining up the shot makes for a great suprise gank on a laner with low health.
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    LEVELING AND SKILLS
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    Now on leveling, most everyone and their mother will say 'Max 1 first!, max 1 first!' Yes, and no. Even at max, the base damage on your one will not do enough to clear waves, do signicant damage to gods, and won't peel the paint off an old car. Your 1 is great for the contribution damage, and the low CD. Get it up to 3, and then focus on your heal, that is your bread and butter. With your heal maxed, and a single Chono pendant or Book of Thoth, you can indefinatly hold a lane in defense bar against 1v3+, and push a wave to the tower for constaint poking. Remember, and this is critical, Ra's Boon is his healing, and the minions. Until about the 10 minute mark, minions are a significant threat to all gods...So keeping your's alive, especially the archers, is a great way to push a god out of the lane. Save your 2 until your other powers are maxed...If you are really having trouble with people chasing you, throw a point in, but even then it's better spent in the others.
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    GENERAL BUILD NOTES
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    In terms of items, you have a few routes. Chrono is a must, Shoes can go CDR or pen and be fine either way...Personally, I prefer grabbing CDR and focusing on getting Iso gem to break chases one way or the other, and Healing Rod to give me that boost in speed and healing. With Iso gem, you can use your AoE heal offencively to slow your target with asingle hit, closing the gap, or use it defensively to heal yourself, and create a slow wall in the jungle to use. As with any speed character, misdirection is Ras greatest defense, and doubbling back in the woods, or diving into one of their camps is a great escape. Passed that, it depends what you're used to. For Stacks, Warlock and Staff is a great way to keep your power and survivability up. For lifesteal, Pyth and Divine works wonders, especially against enemy lifestealers and healers. For pure power, Thoth, Talon, Shard and/or Warlock go a long way. Overall, you want to focus on your utility more than your damage believe it or not with Ra; His controbution is high enough he'll do high damage with the basic three, and his kit is suited to specilized roles more than general 'I nuke you' builds.
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    TEAMFIGHTING AND LATE GAME
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    Lastly, on the teamfight front...You have two options with Ra. You stick with your team 100% of the time, and pick and choose where to use your 2 and 3. Do not use your 2 willy nilly; It's low damage and has a specific function. It will break chases one way or another; It will let your team catch their target, or let them get the hell out of dodge. your 3, save until someone is around 30% hp or lower, or until your whole team engages one or more targets. This heal doesn't move, and you have to pick and choose where you put it; You want it somewhere where everyone's going to get uber exposure to it. Your 1? Spam it like it's disco, and going out of style. This is the basic formula to using Ra in a team fight.
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    The other option, and people will claim this is wrong, is to use your team as bait and split push. Your team goes ahead of you and engages somewhere where the enemy team can see them, and will come; Pushing a lane 3~4 people at a time, fighting the FG for a few seconds or attacking the GF. You go to a lane that has been pushed hard either way; one that's been pushed to your defenses, or their's. Lightly push it at first, but once you're sure that the bulk of the enemy team is fighting your own, use your 2+1 combo to clear waves.Save your three for under the tower-- or use it on the heavies to double up waves. But once you get to the tower, go for broke; Dive in before your minions to take the first hit, and duck back, after two hits on the first heavie pop your healing circle, and 90% of the time the tower will fall. At this point, you don't NEED to stay, but it's best if you do. If an enemy god comes, cover the minions if you can, and if you can't you need to go. By the time they are there, usually the tower will ahve taken enough damage to fall.
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    SMALL NOTE ON PUSHING
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    And on the topic of pushing, Ra is one of few gods that can double up a wave; That is, keep one wave alive long enough that the next wave behind it joins up, and has double the minions. It's a simple litle trick, with a few variations of placement, but it goes like this; Put a heal circle down on the heavies, and don't touch the enemy minions if you can. It takes some time, but if you have it and arn't getting pushed, the enemy side will fall slowly, and the other wave will join you. It's basically non-pushing and more babysitting a wave, but when you do that, the double heavies will ensure that a tower will fall, and maybe even the next or bird if you did it right.
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    So...That's it. That's my two cents and part of my experience. If played Right, Ra can be very powerful...But by himself, he's a sub par god. Please, please don't mistake someone's skill and experience with a god as said god being overpowered; We have plenty of actually overpowered gods as it is that need nerfing, and plenty of up ones that need buffing. Don't get the two confused. On that note, I leave one last bit of advice. If you're having trouble with Ra in a lane, rush him. He has no defenses, and if you scare him enough, he'll use up all of his abilities. While Ra can defend indefinatly, he can easily be tower camped, and forced to take less gold and XP.
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    TL;DR shit be complicated, read it again
    SERIOUS TL;DR Ra doesn't need a nerf, he's squishy and easily killed if rushed or blocked, and if you're fighting as him, stay back out of a fight and save your aoe's as utilities.
    Last edited by Gigaus; 05-14-2014 at 02:28 PM.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Availa's Avatar
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    Member Follower Barkay's Avatar
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    i have to say, im usually all for walls of text.

    that being said, i did skip over a large amount of this post.

    edit it and put some new lines in very few sentences to make it easier to read.

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    Senior Member Honoured AllknowingWolf's Avatar
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    Short verison. To play him: Don't be in the front lines and heal your teammates when they need it. To defeat him, fight him.

    That wall of text is way too long sorry. Spaces and put into paragraphs. >.>

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    Member Worshipper Gigaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkay View Post
    i have to say, im usually all for walls of text.

    that being said, i did skip over a large amount of this post.

    edit it and put some new lines in very few sentences to make it easier to read.
    Quote Originally Posted by AllknowingWolf View Post
    Short verison. To play him: Don't be in the front lines and heal your teammates when they need it. To defeat him, fight him.

    That wall of text is way too long sorry. Spaces and put into paragraphs. >.>
    I'm trying to work with this forum, and it's not easy! Every time I try to write something long, and put in proper separators they just magically vanish. It makes it very hard to not just do a wall of text like this.
    -
    also, as I think I stated, this is technically three posts in one....Because hey, forum keeps eating posts for whatever reason.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Bluechacho's Avatar
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    Hey buddy, I read the whole thing :3

    I mostly agree, but you really want to max out Ra's 1 ASAP. You said it yourself: his beams are like shotguns.

    Shotguns hurt.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead Goldenswords's Avatar
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    didn't read sec part, cause i don't rly care much about ra. not my favorite. but i 100'/. agree with the first part.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead bigturd's Avatar
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    The biggest problem is laning against him. Unless you are playing a character with an absolutely disgusting lane clear (like He Bo, Poseidon, Zeus, Ao Kuang and others) that can simply wait until the heal field disappears and then blow them up in a few seconds, it's not as simple as "just kill the minions lol." You will need help or ganks to regain control, especially early game, or you will be pushed back to your tower which will slowly lose health.

    For example I've played Hel the most against Ra in this situation and it's completely hopeless until midgame when you can just clear the waves in one shot. In this matchup, Ra's 1 can hit all minions and does more damage than your 1 which can only hit 3 minions. His heal is more efficient and will heal more than your heal making it better in this situation. With your 3 which can hit all minions and does slightly more damage than your 1, you need to stick your neck out by getting in the middle of the minions. You're also more mana hungry than he is.

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    New Member Cupidhead orbiat's Avatar
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    only probelm is that he fres in a straight line , ult gets wasted unless someone corners enemy.

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