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Thread: How can SMITE be balanced?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Honoured Dezere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkulyte View Post
    +9

    Some mages combos are just insane in dmg
    Interestingly enough, only 2 of those mages have escapes. so lock em down properly and said damage is down the toilet


    (Except Poseidon, he'll just make a toilet underneath him and murder your violently)
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    Senior Member Infamous Myrkulyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezere View Post
    Interestingly enough, only 2 of those mages have escapes. so lock em down properly and said damage is down the toilet


    (Except Poseidon, he'll just make a toilet underneath him and murder your violently)
    Hav I told you that the viable insta-gib assassins are only 2? Anyway, it's not always 1v5 usually you got other ppl to peel for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkulyte View Post
    Hav I told you that the viable insta-gib assassins are only 2? Anyway, it's not always 1v5 usually you got other ppl to peel for them.
    As do you have more people to kill them, the assassin isn't the only one who can kill the mage, anyone told you that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezere View Post
    As do you have more people to kill them, the assassin isn't the only one who can kill the mage, anyone told you that?
    *Points to the hunter*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkulyte View Post
    *Points to the hunter*
    \o that's me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grilleds View Post
    No, my argument is that you can't balance something around an unpredictable mechanic.
    Yes, that's your argument, which doesn't necessarily make it right. Let's make an example:

    Object A: damage 500.
    Object B: damage 500 for 50 % of the attacks, the rest of the time its damage is 0.

    If object B costs 50 % what object A costs, it's pretty balanced. Of course, issues like B costing half allowing you to get it earlier could factor in, and objects never relate to each other as simply as that example shows, but the core idea is there. Randomness doesn't necessarily make things unbalanceable. It does make it harder to balance, but not impossible.


    Cool speech bro, but that doesn't really change anything about the fact that the CC focus of the game renders it pretty much unbalancable for the reasons I detailed and you ignored to instead irrelevantly gush about how Smite is different.
    You might be surprised by the fact that you have not presented any argument why CC makes it unbalanceable. I didn't agree, and I said so with the same sort of arguments you did. But let's make up another example:

    God A has a 2 second stun.
    God B has a 2 second stun.

    Both are equally balanced, even though both have CC. So the assumption cc is inherently unbalanced is wrong, the difference between God A and B would strictly be on the skills of the players or the rest of their kit, not on those stuns which are identical. Now, kits and skills are never identical, I know, but that doesn't make CC harder to balance than damage, areas, or any other aspect of the game.


    You can detect when someone activates it, but not where they are, therefore yes it's undetectable. Also you missed my point. I wasn't asking for tips on how to beat Loki. I was pointing out why undetectable invisibility is unbalancable. Loki's actually an even more BS version of unbalancable because his ult is also undodgable (It's THEORETICALLY dodgable but good luck doing it on purpose). This can't be balanced the same way as in other MOBA's due to the undetectable aspect of it making combat something of a guessing game.
    Undetectable, by definition, means you can't detect it. If you can hear it, you can detect it. If you can detect it, you can proceed to counter it, for example with area attacks that show where the damage pops up and, thus, where Loki is at. If you see Serquet go invisible you can't see her anymore, but you know that she's in the same place. And so on. It's not as undetectable as you may think if you know how to play and how those gods usually move.

    Something having a counter doesn't mean it's balanced. This is something most of the forum fails to realize, and no, Thor, Apollo, and Ratatoskr's ults are not counterable unless you count either killing them during activation or making them waste it. You can play with their ultimate in mind, but that isn't the same as countering them, and the ridiculous initiation potential from a long distance they give mean that those characters effectively always have a game changer on hand if the player is skilled enough to make use of it. I doubt it's coincidence that every character I listed is considered either high or even top tier, and Athena has been considered top tier for... Actually I don't think there was ever a time she wasn't considered top tier. When you have characters with this level of mobility, it's pretty much an unbalancable gimmick. Either their stats will get nerfed to the point where their effective global presence does not make much of a difference, or their global presence pretty much let's them decide the game. Right now it's more the latter case.
    Apollo, for example, has been buffed relatively recently because he was considered unplayable. Thanatoss has one power like the ones you listed and he rarely is listed as high as those others due to his bad late game, etc.

    Those powers give them a lot... true. But you can say so as well about the Kraken, or Ah Puch's ult, or Geb's or any other ult. The gods that have bad ults are usually considered uderpowered, but it's not a matter of mobility. Cool, go and initiate a team fight landing with Apollo in the middle of the enemy team... I wager you probably won't last much. Thor can, he has higher resistance and more cc, as well as Athena can if someone is in the middle to serve as beacon.

    Having high mobility doesn't mean you can initiate, nor that you can do much of what you affirm they can do. It gives you just that, mobility, and I've seen more than a couple players go in thinking how op those skills are, only to see an enemy team turn and wipe them from the face of the earth.

    Those skills are powerful, sure they are. Are they inherently unbalanced? No, not necessarily. If Thor wants to land on you, greet him with a Kraken. If Athena is coming to a partner's aid, make her land in the middle of Ah Puch's ult. Or be invisible and let them look for you if you're playing Loki. Or just jump away and let them wait with Bastet or Serquet. Or maybe run away with a back flip with Neith... and so on.

    Tools are there, learn to use them, learn to look at the sky to see them coming, etc. And, of course, from time to time they will get kills... it's a ulti afterall, it's powerful, you can't avoid it always like you can't always avoid Anubis' laser. Shit happens.

    You've seen players without common sense. That isn't the same as player skill.

    Also you missed my point drastically. My point was these counter build items pretty much force rock paper scissors type gameplay (which as you ignored, I implied was the case even without these items). Depending on if they are built or not, you end up with a situation where either a character dominates or is rendered almost useless, and unfortunately at the moment I think those characters have been overnerfed to the point where they just plain don't dominate regardless, but that's a different discussion.

    The rock paper scissors issue isn't just counterbuilding. Some gods are pretty much only viable as counters to others. Odin for example is just plain not widely viable, but people largely ignore that because he does counter a few picks, particularly healers (as if healers don't have enough counters). He's not going to get buffed or nerfed in such a way that he's in-line with the rest of the game, because the nature of his ultimate and early game power spike means that quite frankly no matter how his stats are, he's going to be hard countered or hard counter someone himself in way too many matchups with even matchups being unlikely due to his predictable and counterable kit, and Odin isn't the only example I can think of. There are numerous other characters who have ridiculous rock paper scissors matchups.

    Probably an even better example is Loki vs Freya, which is a free win for Freya. You really can't balance this matchup due to Freya so inherently countering Loki's farming. No fudging numbers around is going to change that.
    I agree with the rock/scissors part, that's why I wasn't objecting to it. It's pretty clear indeed, and a pretty common feature in all sorts of games, specially strategy ones. That's why in leagues you get to see what the other picks, so you can counter build and counter choose.

    You don't like it, fair and square, which doesn't mean that knowing to adapt a build isn't skill. But not liking a feature of the game doesn't mean it's unbalanced, it's part of the game mechanics. Choose wisely, learn how to counter the enemy and prevent your own counters, change Gods if what is commonly picked is modified, etc. That's meta and counter-meta and it's a strong part of any online game.

    And, unlike you, I do consider that both fun and skill-requiring because you don't have to learn just one god and go on with him to the end. You have to learn all gods possible and adapt yourself.
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