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Thread: A thought on Balancing Hunters (Aka Crits)

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    Retired Super Moderator Prestigious KingScuba's Avatar
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    A thought on Balancing Hunters (Aka Crits)

    Hunters are a key part of this game, and It would be unwise to simply 'nerf' them.

    My suggestion is to simply get rid of crit items.

    Gods that rely on in hand damage should receive a buff to their in hand damage scaling.

    For example, here's Artemis's information

    Damage: 35 + 2.05/Lvl (+100% of Physical Power)
    Progression: None

    So my suggestion is to simply add a % based on level.

    Damage: 35 + 2.05/Lvl (+100% of Physical Power) + 2.5% /Lvl
    Progression: None

    So what would this accomplish?

    This would mean that hunters ares till 100% reliant on their auto attacks, and come online in the end game as they always have, they'll simply be doing steady DPS.


    If crit items are taken out, you would obviously have to add the same feature as above to melee based gods, such as Kali, Mercury, and Osiris.


    This will also have the added benefit of allowing hunters and assassins a more varied build.
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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Alternatively, you could modify crits to apply bonuses to your in-hand power. For example:
    Rage: Increases your in-hand power by 30% + 10% for each successful hit (max 2 stacks)
    Deathbringer: Increases your in-hand power by 20%. Increases your in-hand power modifier by 50%.
    Malice: Increases your in-hand power by 20%. Applies a bleed on-hit effect that hits for 5% of your in-hand power every 0.5s for 2s (does not stack).
    .
    Obviously the numbers would be subject to change, but this would give you a steady power curve without the RNG of critical hits and without needing to modify any existing characters.

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    Retired Super Moderator Prestigious KingScuba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawkboyJr View Post
    Alternatively, you could modify crits to apply bonuses to your in-hand power. For example:
    Rage: Increases your in-hand power by 30% + 10% for each successful hit (max 2 stacks)
    Deathbringer: Increases your in-hand power by 20%. Increases your in-hand power modifier by 50%.
    Malice: Increases your in-hand power by 20%. Applies a bleed on-hit effect that hits for 5% of your in-hand power every 0.5s for 2s (does not stack).
    .
    Obviously the numbers would be subject to change, but this would give you a steady power curve without the RNG of critical hits and without needing to modify any existing characters.
    and we'd be right back where we started with absolutely no variation in builds because those would become core :/


    That would be the entire reason I brought this up. You'd still have a 3 item core on hunters, but then you'd actually be able to branch off with at least 2 other items.
    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios. Also I will not be able to contest your in-game ban.

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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    There are two main types of builds possible for hunters so long as they remain DPS gods: power and penetration. The former aims to maximize damage per second against squishy gods (crit), while the latter aims to maximize DPS against bulky gods (unicorn). Technically, of course, there is a third option, building the core of each for a build that works fairly well against both and typically becomes the standard (zapicorn).
    This balance of power was drastically shifted in favour of crit builds when Qin Sais was nerfed out of the meta, thereby destroying the unicorn and zapicorn builds.
    If you wanted to set-up a different power dynamic for hunters, you would first have to buff their base damage to the point where they could build one or two defensive items and still do enough damage to fulfill their role, which would require a drastic overhaul not just of items, but also of every hunter’s stat line and the stat line of every other god that relied on these items.
    If you just wanted to re-establish the old power triangle, all you need to do is buff Qin Sais (either by increasing its stats or reducing its price).

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    Retired Super Moderator Prestigious KingScuba's Avatar
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    unicorn build is obsolete hawk. Has been for a while.

    There's only 2 builds atm that are viable, the heartseeker > asi build or the devo > ichi build.

    The downfall of unicorn was 2 parts. The nerf to qins and the loss of pen on boots. You must have penetration to be a hunter.
    Last edited by KingScuba; 06-18-2015 at 02:15 AM.
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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    Unicorn went obsolete when Qins was nerfed at the beginning of season 2. Heartseeker and Devo Gloves are functionally almost the same build, they really don't add much variety. If you wanted to go back to a Qins/Crit meta, all you need to do is buff Qins.

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    Member Worshipper SpitefulOne's Avatar
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    So hunters that can build like warriors but still do hunter damage?

    No thoughts on how that could go horribly wrong?

    Crit items at least force hunters to use up at least 2 slots to make it effective.

    The problem that always exists is that there isn't much synergy between items (except for critical for example) and most bonuses are additive.

    If the Qin's passive was put on a few items and made stackable it'd be far more reasonable then to make it a strong item that fits into any build.

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    Senior Member Chosen CaptainDoomsday's Avatar
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    The problem with exclusively attacking items is that Assassins will be damaged, as well. Currently, a Hunter's basic attacks have NO disadvantage over an Assassin's, and get fast enough to waste some of purple buff late.
    Aside from Hou Yi, Hunters should all take a hit to their AS, and Neith to her ability scaling and ult range.

    Crit itself isn't OP, but the fact that it makes lifesteal become nearly immortality, and can deal 250% damage, unless hard CCd is an issue. Slash DB's boost to 25% and cost, adjust lifesteal to only leech half of a crit's additional damage, if not half of all of the damage a crit deals (so base without DB), but also 1/3rd scale off ability damage so Warriors and offensive Assassin skills can benefit.

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    Otaku Mod Infamous MiyobiKumagawa's Avatar
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    I suggested to lower base crits because items like DB and Rage together makes a hunter a complete monster. Those two alone already give an 80% crit chance plus with Rage's passive of giving 10% extra kit per stack aka 50% for 5 stacks. Your crit chance is literally 130% crit chance. It's bad enough that Rage alone let's you crit often per hit.

    I already suggested to lower crit down on Deathbane to a base of 20% to 25% and Rage down to 15% and reduce stacks to 3 with a 5% increase per stack.

    On lifesteal, it does need more tweaking because full stacks on Dev Gloves can get you a ton of health back in a few hits. Did it with Ratattat with Emerald Acorn and just Dev Gloves and I healed most of my health back easily.

    *Edit* I fucked up the math, Death bringers is 20%, but it gives 50% more damage to crits. So DB and Rage give 50% crit chance with 10% per stack with a passive of 50% damage crit increase.
    Last edited by MiyobiKumagawa; 06-19-2015 at 02:22 PM.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*


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    Senior Member Prestigious HawkboyJr's Avatar
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    If we specifically want to alter crit, I liked the suggestion of making it an additional source of damage like Qin Sais and Odysseus Bow because, besides power, crit is the only way to alter your base auto-attack damage, which feels counter-intuitive and incongruous with the rest of the additional sources of damage.

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