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Thread: Is Qins sis price fair now?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Prestigious Nalessa's Avatar
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    Just rework the damn thing.

    %hp damage on items is a bad thing to have anyway
    Tastes like purple.
    Drommels, drommels, drommels!

  2. #32
    Senior Member Infamous Trubblegum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalessa View Post
    Just rework the damn thing.

    %hp damage on items is a bad thing to have anyway
    It's a counter to bruisers, nothing more.
    Tanks build prots, so you need a ton of pen for Qins to be worth it, and squishies don't have enough health.
    That being said, Soul Reaver is usually only bought for the stats.
    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.


  3. #33
    Member Worshipper Penta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    is now restricted to 3 gods
    The pinnacle of balance, eh?

  4. #34
    Senior Member Prestigious Nalessa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubblegum View Post
    It's a counter to bruisers, nothing more.
    Tanks build prots, so you need a ton of pen for Qins to be worth it, and squishies don't have enough health.
    That being said, Soul Reaver is usually only bought for the stats.
    Pretty moot point as you are going to get pen items anyway, it's core in your build and it lets your rip up tanks too easily when combined.
    Tastes like purple.
    Drommels, drommels, drommels!

  5. #35
    Senior Member Infamous Trubblegum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalessa View Post
    Pretty moot point as you are going to get pen items anyway, it's core in your build and it lets your rip up tanks too easily when combined.
    But any item that relies on another item to do anything is a bad item.
    Qin's speed and damage for it's cost is very low.
    Think about it, Executioner is now better at all stages of the game.
    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.


  6. #36
    Member Worshipper SpitefulOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubblegum View Post
    But any item that relies on another item to do anything is a bad item.
    Qin's speed and damage for it's cost is very low.
    Think about it, Executioner is now better at all stages of the game.
    You actually want items that aren't great individually from a design perspective because it implies you've got too much scaling/utility in 1 slot. It's the reason they removed life steal from Qin's originally and they removed attack speed from Rage back in beta.

    Qin's is just a situational item now and only useful on gods with hit chains that have attacks with less than X1 multipliers. Which is fine since it's an item that scales with the opponent which is a bad idea in the first place.

  7. #37
    Junior Member Cupidhead Yarzahn's Avatar
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    The nerf was close to nothing
    I wouldn't call losing 40% of it's attack speed value and 20% of the passive on-hit damage a "close to nothing" nerf. Ignoring Math makes you seem like a rambling dork.
    Also the argument: "a couple of hypercarries with superstrong autoattack scaling can still kill stuff with that item" isn't a very strong one.

    But any item that relies on another item to do anything is a bad item
    No it's not. It's actually a NECESSARY MECHANIC for carries to BE CARRIES. It's the design soul behind the existance of carries. It's the reason attack speed, critical and penetration get exponentially better if you mix all of them (up to a certain penetration threshold and crit cap) and different items give different stats. If that wasn't the case, carries would never power spike and the game would be very boring.

    On topic: Qin's should be a niche item. A counter item autoattack gods could buy against hp stackers and tanks. It should only become cost effective in those situations instead of a braindead must-buy core item for any and every god that autoattacks, like it used to be.

    HP as a defensive stat should not be countered by default.

    It's fine as it is. If anything buff the % max hp passive again and nerf the default damage, to make it a harder counter to hp stacking and even weaker against squishies in normal situations - then you can reduce the price.
    Alternatively nerf the damage even more, but make it true damage. Anything to accentuate it's identity as a definite anti-bruiser/ shred tool.
    Last edited by Yarzahn; 02-19-2015 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarzahn View Post
    I wouldn't call losing 40% of it's attack speed value and 20% of the passive on-hit damage a "close to nothing" nerf. Ignoring Math makes you seem like a rambling dork.
    Also the argument: "a couple of hypercarries with superstrong autoattack scaling can still kill stuff with that item" isn't a very strong one.
    And what you're doing is taking advantage of small numbers to make the nerf seem bigger than it is.

    It's lowering physical damage by 1%. ONE PERCENT. It's barely anything, think if gasoline prices went up by one cent (if you're in the US). You'd barely feel it, but you'd complain like hell.

    It's lowering attack speed by 10%. At first glance it's a 40% nerf. But gods that use Qin's build a second attack speed item, usually Fatalis. So, the actual attack speed is +55% nerfed to +45%. The true nerf is ~19%.
    Smite is an online multiplayer game. You can't have immediate gratification simply by starting the game. The ground is even. There's another player on the other side. You are not entitled to having everything favoring you at every time. If you don't like it, by all means, go back to the 1-shot-kills-all Aliens: Colonial Marines singleplayer.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Infamous Myrkulyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disquieted1 View Post
    And what you're doing is taking advantage of small numbers to make the nerf seem bigger than it is.

    It's lowering physical damage by 1%. ONE PERCENT. It's barely anything, think if gasoline prices went up by one cent (if you're in the US). You'd barely feel it, but you'd complain like hell.

    It's lowering attack speed by 10%. At first glance it's a 40% nerf. But gods that use Qin's build a second attack speed item, usually Fatalis. So, the actual attack speed is +55% nerfed to +45%. The true nerf is ~19%.
    Ummm....no one except freya buy fatalis. and perhaps bakasura. But, the big but, is the usefulness by itself.

    Again, the game fighting scenarions are 1v1ns, 2v2s ....5v5.

    in 4v4 and 5v5 scenarios there is usually a mage who deal so much dmg that bruisers like osiris go down after a low amounts of basics done. so osiris went in, did 3-4 autos, GG dead. Very good item those quinn`s

    In lower number scenarios, quinn`s peak in, getting strongest in 1v1 situations(boxing).

    while OP in boxes, useless in big fights. So it didn`t deserved a nerf in the first place
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrkulyte View Post
    Ummm....no one except freya buy fatalis. and perhaps bakasura. But, the big but, is the usefulness by itself.

    Again, the game fighting scenarions are 1v1ns, 2v2s ....5v5.

    in 4v4 and 5v5 scenarios there is usually a mage who deal so much dmg that bruisers like osiris go down after a low amounts of basics done. so osiris went in, did 3-4 autos, GG dead. Very good item those quinn`s

    In lower number scenarios, quinn`s peak in, getting strongest in 1v1 situations(boxing).

    while OP in boxes, useless in big fights. So it didn`t deserved a nerf in the first place
    Regardless the nerf is not as much as people claim it is.

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