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Thread: How useless is Nemesis?

  1. #31
    Junior Member Cupidhead Legit's Avatar
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    lol nemesis useless? in the wrong hands probably...but...in the right hands my goodness f6 at 10 unless she's on your team =)

  2. #32
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    dont need wont change the fact that you are wrong about ""shes only good at tower diving""

    Hey nice quote but who are you quotting because I don't recall saying that. She's best at tower diving and I stand by that, like someone said at the end game all she really is is a normal god, so basically you have to sacrifice so much early game so at the end you have something thats mediocre. Thanks but no thanks,

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    Senior Member Chosen GoldenSkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiyobiKumagawa View Post
    OP, you have no idea my friend how scary a good Nemesis is as a tank and squishy. She tanks your damage and steals your armor. I fear her more than a Loki, Kali, and Huntz Batz together on how bad she can rek you hard if you are not careful.
    this
    .
    her mobility, her sheild are not the ones that makes nemesis strong.
    it's her passive and ult!
    stealing damage and tankiness and increasing her mobility and dealing damage based on the targect's health.
    and no this is not enough she still can heal herself if u try to nuke her and will survive and slow u till death.
    in my opinion, nemesis works better as a counter to some gods. but also can be built as a warrior.
    Last edited by GoldenSkill; 01-20-2015 at 02:16 PM.
    how to win games:
    1. understand the meta.
    2. pick an op god.
    3. master him.
    4. spam VEL.
    the game will never be balanced.
    u got an awesome balance team there hi-rez

  4. #34
    Senior Member Chosen Killgunner10's Avatar
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    Nemesis is decent, sure there are better ones out there, she is still good.
    Currently from what I seen (premades league etc) she is mainly used as a counter pick when there is at least 2 tankish guys (usually the support and solo laner).
    Her ult I believe is the only ult that reduces protections by a large amount.
    Her 3 is also effective against tick based gods.(if they don't stun you first)
    Other than that there are better picks out there.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Chosen Desmion's Avatar
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    Late game she can kill squishies quickly. And like Killgunner10 said, there are better ones god for this role. That doesn't make her useless though.

    She can still be very terrifying and can counter other gods. When I mentioned kali, I wasn't meaning a direct comparison. Just the fact that they both scale well with quins. Once they have those, they can do a lot. Kali relies a lot lot on little attacks, nemesis relies on her abilities to weaken the enemy until a few attacks will get the job done.

    She is a late game carry because she can be very damaging and another pseudo front liner. Roles that other assassins cannot fill, ao and Loki. If she had a cc ability, she would be very deadly.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Chosen TigrisCallidus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmion View Post
    When I mentioned kali, I wasn't meaning a direct comparison. Just the fact that they both scale well with quins. Once they have those, they can do a lot. Kali relies a lot lot on little attacks, nemesis relies on her abilities to weaken the enemy until a few attacks will get the job done.

    She is a late game carry because she can be very damaging and another pseudo front liner. Roles that other assassins cannot fill, ao and Loki. If she had a cc ability, she would be very deadly.
    But thats just not true, kali deals more damage with abilities, and nemesis has nothing making her scale good with qins, yes she has natural little bit higher then other assasins attack speed, but this is not a lot (she has in total 2.8% higher attack speed on max levle then bastet as an example this is almost nothing).


    Kali scales 50% better with the quin sais proc!
    Arachne scales 20% better, even without using her 2.
    Loki scales 25% better.
    (Osiris 33% better).
    QUOTES ARE NO ARGUMENTS!
    ARGUMENTS NEED FACTS AND CORRECT DEDUCTION!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Validit...y_of_arguments

  7. #37
    Member Worshipper JIeBuc's Avatar
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    Kali with 1.02 attack speed has 1x/0.5x/0.5x for 2s combo. Nem with 1.02 speed has 1x/1x/0.75x/1.25x for almost 4s. Its easy to say she has 50% better scale, but how big is this part? In lategame final build has near 294 attack power with 2x speed. Rage+deathbringer gives 90% increase. It means 1117 average unmitg dps for both. Tanky target has 3k hp and 5% is 150hp, so kali overall dps is 1567 and nem has 1417. I d not say its big difference including the fact nem has 50% of max hp ult. Its already 1500 unmitg damage. She also has 50% protection debuff (150+ for tank) and even kali`s passive has only 30. Powerbuff? its not enough, because 120 protection difference is huge amount. Nemesis has much better damage against tanky targets. Kali has much more carry potential, because healing and immortal ult. Thats all, that qins difference is very-very low in overall damage.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Chosen TigrisCallidus's Avatar
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    Tell me what build exactly you are talking about.
    I want to calculate the numbers myself.
    Of course the ultimate from nemesis makes more then the powerbuff from kali.
    But without the ult nemesis damage is one of the lowest of all physical dds lategame.

    So lets calculate the lategame dps of both (without ultimate without penetration without passive):

    Build Deathbringer, Rage, Penetration boots, Qin Sais, Heartseeker (fully stacked), Witchblade

    This gets:
    215 Attack damage
    40% attack speed
    15 Penetration
    56.5% crit (see here:http://forums.smitegame.com/showthre...highlight=rage)
    250% crit damage
    5% health damage proc


    Nemesis:
    84 Attack damage + 9% (of someone)
    1.43 Attack speed
    1 progression

    (83+215)*(1.43+0.4)*(0.435*1+0.565*2.5)=1007.5 dps
    +(1.43+0.4)*5 health =9.15% health

    This is on a 2000 Health target 183 => total dps 1190
    On a 3000 Health target 274 => total dp 1281


    Kali lategame:
    83 Attack damage + 50 Stereoid
    1.43 attack speed
    25% lifesteal
    30 penetration (maybe)
    0.66 progression

    (83+215+50)*(1.43+0.4)*(0.435*1+0.565*2.5)=1176 dps
    +(1.43+0.4)*(1/0.66666)*5% health =13.7% health

    This is on a 2000 Health target 274 => total dp 1450 21% MORE DAMAGE
    On a 3000 Health target 411 => total dp 1587 23% MORE DAMAGE

    The 30 protections less will be mean 20% more damage! (Multiplicative!)
    Even if the passive of Nemesis increases the damage by 9% (which is not realistic) it will still be way less!


    Consider now the ability burst:

    Nemesis:

    280+340+50% +50%=835

    Kali:
    375+280+90%+80%=1020 22% more damage! Without the extra damage!
    Additional 20% of missing health. You normaly want to use this on fleing low health targets.
    Lets say the tarrget is on 20% health (total) then this deals:

    2000 Health target 2000*0.8*0.2=320 extra damage
    3000 Health target 3000*0.8*0.2=480 extra damage.
    Last edited by TigrisCallidus; 01-20-2015 at 05:05 PM.
    QUOTES ARE NO ARGUMENTS!
    ARGUMENTS NEED FACTS AND CORRECT DEDUCTION!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Validit...y_of_arguments

  9. #39
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Scream's Avatar
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    She is a great 1v1er.

  10. #40
    Member Worshipper JIeBuc's Avatar
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    I like it. 56% is correct (i did mistake because base 30 from rage with that bonus gives a bit more than 40, but with another crit item bonus is lower). Build for nemesis is pen boots, qins, jotunns, rage, deathbringer, titan (or other item). 294 AA damage. But you did carry comparison. Without doubt kali is stronger in this situation. Nemesis is counter to bruiser-tank. Ppl take her to use her ult, get many bonuses and kill (gank or just someone tanky). Its also very hard to escape from her. Kali has stun and jump, but nemesis has dash, 50% slow for 2s, 25% slow for 5s with ult, 25% speed buff with ult for 8s and also she still has sustain a bit with shield and protection steal.

    So if target has f.e. 230 protection and 3k health (quite common for bruiser to have near this amount of phys defense) than nemesis even with only boots and ult reduce it to 100. 1281*0,5=640 dps. Kali gonna face 185-215 (mostly 215, because its not so often to die from tanky player) and average reduction ll be near 66.66%. 1587*0,333=527. Its already 21.5% difference and i dont include steal power or additional penetration or ult damage (nemesis usually takes executioner or titan) or damage from ally. Or even tank, because difference gonna be even bigger. Also healing is not damage. This way we can count shield as 1k damage (500 protect, 250 heal, 250 reflect). Healing is definitely good for carry situation and its doing kali very dangerous enemy for any player, but also its only healing.

    Without doubt kali is more valuable god. She has awesome damage, she has decent antitank potential, she has stun and lifesteal and finally 5s deathless ult, while nemesis atm is only counter to tanky team and average god at any other situation.
    Last edited by JIeBuc; 01-21-2015 at 06:23 AM.

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