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Thread: Is matchmaking really broken? An analysis.

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    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Is matchmaking really broken? An analysis.

    This is not a matchmaking QQ thread. So if you're here to whine, get out.

    The big question: Is matchmaking really broken?

    If you go to Google and search "[insert moba here] matchmaking," you get this.







    This begs the question "is matchmaking really broken across three large games?" DOTA2 and League are arguably the two most popular games on any platform. They would not have such high playerbases if their matchmaking was broken, for if every match was stomp after stomp, many players would leave. The fact that both games are doing well means their matchmaker, as well as game mechanics and marketing, are good.

    This then leads one to ask "well, if matchmaking is fine, why do people say it's bad?" The answer is "people want to win, and don't blame themselves for their losses." Have you noticed that every matchmaking QQ thread happens because someone lost a match? No one ever whines about bad matchmaking if they win.

    Now that we have that out of the way, let's dive into the real problems with matchmaking.

    As far as Smite is concerned, we're using an Elo system. We'll start with the basics. Elo is a rating given to a player, the higher it is, the better the player is. Matchmaking will make matches with players of similar Elo, so that it's balanced. Here's Wikipedia.



    So, we know Elo is a rating and it originated for chess. Chess you say? What are the characteristics of chess? There's only one we need to look at.

    >Chess is one verse one.

    In Smite, a team based game, we must condense everything into two parties, so that it fits Elo's one verse one condition. This forces players to be matched so their average is a single number. There's the first problem with matchmaking. Everything is based on averages instead of individual statistics.

    The second problem with matchmaking: Elo rating itself. It assumes that each player will perform at the standard they have been given via Elo rating. If someone had a 1500 Elo, matchmaker assumes that the player will perform at the 1500 Elo standard for each and every match he plays in. It doesn't happen. Someone may be having a bad match, or playing a god they're not used to. They'll perform worse than before. Or maybe someone is having a good day and wrecking everyone.

    My thoughts: The Elo matchmaker will never be perfect because it assumes the performance of players and works based on averages (at least in team games), and all that whine about matchmaker underestimate the difficulty of perfecting matchmaking AND simply want to blame something or someone other than themselves for a loss.



    Edit:

    Some think I'm defending matchmaking and claiming it's perfect. Read the post again. If you still don't want to, I already have openly admitted that MM is far from perfect, but it's not as broken as most think it is, is my point.
    Last edited by Disquieted1; 12-13-2014 at 09:24 PM.
    Smite is an online multiplayer game. You can't have immediate gratification simply by starting the game. The ground is even. There's another player on the other side. You are not entitled to having everything favoring you at every time. If you don't like it, by all means, go back to the 1-shot-kills-all Aliens: Colonial Marines singleplayer.

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    Super Moderator Godlike RainbowSplat's Avatar
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    ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°) can you type first word a por.....and see what comes up and post screen shot ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)
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    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°) can you type first word a por.....and see what comes up and post screen shot ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)
    I got porsche and portal.
    Smite is an online multiplayer game. You can't have immediate gratification simply by starting the game. The ground is even. There's another player on the other side. You are not entitled to having everything favoring you at every time. If you don't like it, by all means, go back to the 1-shot-kills-all Aliens: Colonial Marines singleplayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disquieted1 View Post
    I got porsche and portal.
    u didnt post screen shot.......but on the topic pretty much true what u said : ) :P
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead daantjeb's Avatar
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    Yes it is broken. Period.

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    Yeah, in Smite case it's sure is, but the problem is also the players.

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    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daantjeb View Post
    Yes it is broken. Period.
    Example and explanation? I never said it was perfect (and Elo matchmaking in a team game will never be, if you read the original post).

    Quote Originally Posted by papaijoel View Post
    Yeah, in Smite case it's sure is, but the problem is also the players.
    Agree. Matchmaking is far from perfect, but most of the time it's due to the players.
    Smite is an online multiplayer game. You can't have immediate gratification simply by starting the game. The ground is even. There's another player on the other side. You are not entitled to having everything favoring you at every time. If you don't like it, by all means, go back to the 1-shot-kills-all Aliens: Colonial Marines singleplayer.

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    Senior Member Honoured JesusOnAStick's Avatar
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    I the main problem is how the divisions work, you sit in qualifiers but have to play platinums if you go on any sort of win streak because the elo says you should be that high... but you only got that elo on scrubs =/
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    Senior Member Infamous Disquieted1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesusOnAStick View Post
    I the main problem is how the divisions work, you sit in qualifiers but have to play platinums if you go on any sort of win streak because the elo says you should be that high... but you only got that elo on scrubs =/
    If I'm not mistaken, 1500 Elo is the starting Elo in Leagues?
    Smite is an online multiplayer game. You can't have immediate gratification simply by starting the game. The ground is even. There's another player on the other side. You are not entitled to having everything favoring you at every time. If you don't like it, by all means, go back to the 1-shot-kills-all Aliens: Colonial Marines singleplayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disquieted1 View Post
    This begs the question "is matchmaking really broken across three large games?" DOTA2 and League are arguably the two most popular games on any platform. They would not have such high playerbases if their matchmaking was broken, for if every match was stomp after stomp, many players would leave. The fact that both games are doing well means their matchmaker, as well as game mechanics and marketing, are good.

    This then leads one to ask "well, if matchmaking is fine, why do people say it's bad?" The answer is "people want to win, and don't blame themselves for their losses." Have you noticed that every matchmaking QQ thread happens because someone lost a match? No one ever whines about bad matchmaking if they win.
    I will stop you here.

    I AM one who complains when I win with ease also, not just a lose.

    Matchmaking is broken, but players stick it out as they know with every stomp lose comes a stomp win, and that is why nothing is being done, the stats show nothing to be wrong with matchmaking over the long run.

    The amount of games I have had that are evenly done is minimal, my last game one of the enemy DC'd and we stomped them 296/0 in Arena. If it was not broken, regardless of 4v5, it would not have been that bad, but the fact players were still charging at us 1v3 / 1v4 shows they were bad and should not have been matched together. 4v5 they should be sticking together all the time and trying to pick us off, but they were just bad and not doing that.

    I had 2 Joust 1v1 games recently, one I went 8/1, it would have been worse but he was playing Loki and just sitting under his tower waiting for his Ult, I would counter that and kill him. The next was 1v1 against Chronos, I lost something like 0/7. Loki was Bronze, I am Silver, Chronos was Platinum. I even had a game that I just LoL'd the entire time, an Ullr who was only about 200 wins total and just couldn't even hit one AA.

    The only way they can fix matchmaking, regardless of queue, is to allow your Elo to change based on PERSONAL STATS, not if you win or lose and therefore matching according to your Elo will allow you to be matched with similar skilled players.

    HERE IS THE PROBLEM:
    Let's say I have a really good game, get a god that counters the best enemy player and just run a mock giving my team an easy win and therefore raising all their Elo's. Let's say I went 25/0 and there is a player on my team who went 0/25. I am obviously better, by a lot. So what happens? That bad player gets a free Elo gain and the best player on the enemy team gets an Elo lose.

    Now, next game that bad player joins another team, plays terrible and makes his team lose, even though someone could play really well, they still lose because of one players who was just carried into an Elo he does not belong. Thus lowering the Elo of 4 other players who did not deserve the lose.

    Meanwhile, that best player who lost, he goes into an Elo lower than he deserves and carries his team to victory, thus raising the Elo of 4 players who do not deserve the win. What happens is you now have 8 players, 4 of which are higher Elo than they deserve and 4 who are lower than they deserve, they get matched together and you have 4 players somewhere in that game at least who will have had their heads kicked in.

    Basically someone winning when they shouldn't and someone losing when they shouldn't, and if it occurs enough means they will be matched with players who are either better or worse than they are. What this does is puts better players at a lower rank, worse players at a higher rank, on a large enough scale it means there will be a large enough player base out of their leagues, good or bad.

    So the good players will have easy wins, no complaints, the bad players will have bad loses, more complaints. All because you made me lose a game I should not have lost. It is a snowball effect, but does not just include bad players getting higher than they should.

    Let's say you are at a 100% win rate with Freya in Joust, or very good, much like the last person I just jousted. I took Arachne, a perfect counter to her since when she ults, I ult and take no damage. 1970 wins for Freya, 664 for myself, she was unranked, but by how she played she was very good, just her ult trump card was useless against me and she lost.

    So even if you have a really good win rate you can get countered, or even have that god banned, what happens if your 100% win rate god gets banned? You choose someone you are not so good at and play bad, potentially having a lose. Just because you carried yourself to a higher Elo with one god, that means now you lost and gave your team mates a lose lowering everyone's Elo.

    If we put a personal Elo in based on your stats, that person who made your team lose will have their Elo lowered, other players should not. This will ensure only those who deserve that higher Elo get to that higher Elo and vice versa. There is no other way around it, getting carried and forcing a lose to higher ranked players is bad, very bad matchmaking, and that is the only issue here. The game matches based on your rank and if you are getting carried you will have bad matches.

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