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Thread: Advice and Tips on building, playing, countering and counter-countering Ah Muzen Cab.

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    Senior Member Honoured SagaTheDragon's Avatar
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    Advice and Tips on building, playing, countering and counter-countering Ah Muzen Cab.

    Hello fellow Smite member, fellow deities of the battlefield!

    You may all remember me for my thread about fixing Ah Muzen Cab, but I've come to conclusion outside maybe a small mobility tweak that he's just fine, just with deceptively high learning curve.

    Now I understand the basics about Ah Muzen Cab, I know to tuck hives in jungle paths and behind turrets where they are out of way, I always get them set up so I can use my honey. For the most part I'm having a bit of trouble with stinger but that just practice.

    What I really need is ideas and advice on how build him according to map (what stats to aim for), How to play him on each map (Such at key hive locations) How to counter him (If I know what breaks him, I could possible learn how to counter the counter) and finally counters to the counters that already know.

    All your advice would be much appreciated and welcomed!

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    Senior Member Honoured AttackDamageCry's Avatar
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    Build all ADC's the same.

    Devo/ Transcendance > Warrior Tabi > Executioner/ O Bow/ Fatalis (only for AMC) > Rage > Deathbringer > Tower's Bane.

    Place hives where you would normally ward, intersections and buff/ harpy camps.

    AMC would be utterly rek'd by an Assassin/ Warrior support or Jungle Thanatos/ Nemesis with Heavy Hammer start. CC owns any Hunter due to squishyness, but slows hurt AMC more than any other since he has no escapes.
    The pros miss as many AA's as I do. I'm not a pro. Lyfe unfair.

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    Senior Member Honoured SagaTheDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ïngenious View Post
    Build all ADC's the same.

    Devo/ Transcendance > Warrior Tabi > Executioner/ O Bow/ Fatalis (only for AMC) > Rage > Deathbringer > Tower's Bane.

    Place hives where you would normally ward, intersections and buff/ harpy camps.

    AMC would be utterly rek'd by an Assassin/ Warrior support or Jungle Thanatos/ Nemesis with Heavy Hammer start. CC owns any Hunter due to squishyness, but slows hurt AMC more than any other since he has no escapes.
    Question: Wouldn't buying Sprint and Flash counter his normal lack of escapes? When used in unison with each other or separately?

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    Senior Member Honoured AttackDamageCry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SagaTheDragon View Post
    Question: Wouldn't buying Sprint and Flash counter his normal lack of escapes? When used in unison with each other or separately?
    If by "flash" you mean blink, and by blink you mean combat blink then you're going to pop both your actives 180s cooldown + 60s cooldown just to avoid someone's in-hands? And if you take blink you can't get beads.

    Can't call it a counter.

    You could go Winged Blade, but then you lose a lot of damage, there isn't much deviation with ADC builds because of what they need to be able to do.
    The pros miss as many AA's as I do. I'm not a pro. Lyfe unfair.

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    Senior Member Prestigious LuxInterior's Avatar
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    I used to start with Devo gloves, now I normally do with Transcendence. Anyway, both are starters and I usually double stack, you need mana and health sap ASAP and it's very easy to stack with him, as he almost one-shots minion waves with his 2.

    With Cab, you focus on physical power more than anything else, because he's more ability-based than other hunters, and that makes bees almost a thing. If the situation is in your side, you can forgo items that increase your attack speed, rely on your hives, and look for more power instead. If not, Witchblade and Winged Blade are better options than Fatalis. You don't want to be chasing too long, as you don't have any escape. You can always have sprint 3 if you need the effect. Instead of chasing people around with autos, as if you were Mercury, you block their way out with honey, place a hive to approach quickly, finish them off with swarm or stinger if your autos aren't enough.

    Keeping your hives intact is crucial. With thmn, you're constantly on steroids - other gods, like Artemis or Apollo, have a more powerful steroid, but it's not always turned on. There are several ways to protect your hives. You can be sneaky, placing them around corners, but more experienced enemies will still find them easily. If you notice someone approaching your hive to kill it, draw a honey carpet from the hive to them. If that isn't enough and you can afford to, just place yourself between them and the hive and start trading blows. Another simple solution is to spam hives in and area, and harass them when they go from one to other. Don't engage with hive on cooldown. In the middle of a fight, if you place a hive, they won't be able to kill it and you at the same time. Finally, don't take all of that as a dogma: you must know when the situation isn't in your favor and you have to abandon your hives.

    Use your stinger. It's not there just to finish lower health enemies. It's a cripple, so it's better suited for initiation than finishing. It works wonders when coupled with things like Hades, Zeus or Odin's ultimates. If you notice an assassin approaching, use it as the first action. Take some risks if necessary to recover it, as it's more of a 4th ability than a proper ultimate.

    Other AMC mains will disagree, but honey is bad. For me, it's the dump skill, after swarm and hives. It has its uses when leveled, but it's underwhelming in its area denial role. Still, use it to discourage approaches blocking the lane behind you when being chased. Spread it around yourself and stay in it if you're being attacked by a melee enemy.

    Finally, that doesn't only apply to Cab, but remember to counterbuild. Buy beads if Ares or Hades are on the field. Aegis if it's Nu-wa or Artemis. If the enemy hunters or assassins are relying on health sap, build Brawler's Beat Stick. Blink gives you a escape, but it has a long cooldown, so map awareness is king when playing Cab. So never forget to use wards, specially if you're pushing to a tower. Retreat at the first sign of danger.
    Last edited by LuxInterior; 09-13-2014 at 01:05 PM.

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    Senior Member Honoured SagaTheDragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuxInterior View Post
    I used to start with Devo gloves, now I normally do with Transcendence. Anyway, both are starters and I usually double stack, you need mana and health sap ASAP and it's very easy to stack with him, as he almost one-shots minion waves with his 2.

    With Cab, you focus on physical power more than anything else, because he's more ability-based than other hunters, and that makes bees almost a thing. If the situation is in your side, you can forgo items that increase your attack speed, rely on your hives, and look for more power instead. If not, Witchblade and Winged Blade are better options than Fatalis. You don't want to be chasing too long, as you don't have any escape. You can always have sprint 3 if you need the effect. Instead of chasing people around with autos, as if you were Mercury, you block their way out with honey, place a hive to approach quickly, finish them off with swarm or stinger if your autos aren't enough.

    Keeping your hives intact is crucial. With thmn, you're constantly on steroids - other gods, like Artemis or Apollo, have a more powerful steroid, but it's not always turned on. There are several ways to protect your hives. You can be sneaky, placing them around corners, but more experienced enemies will still find them easily. If you notice someone approaching your hive to kill it, draw a honey carpet from the hive to them. If that isn't enough and you can afford to, just place yourself between them and the hive and start trading blows. Another simple solution is to spam hives in and area, and harass them when they go from one to other. Don't engage with hive on cooldown. In the middle of a fight, if you place a hive, they won't be able to kill it and you at the same time. Finally, don't take all of that as a dogma: you must know when the situation isn't in your favor and you have to abandon your hives.

    Use your stinger. It's not there just to finish lower health enemies. It's a cripple, so it's better suited for initiation than finishing. It works wonders when coupled with things like Hades, Zeus or Odin's ultimates. If you notice an assassin approaching, use it as the first action. Take some risks if necessary to recover it, as it's more of a 4th ability than a proper ultimate.

    Other AMC mains will disagree, but honey is bad. For me, it's the dump skill, after swarm and hives. It has its uses when leveled, but it's underwhelming in its area denial role. Still, use it to discourage approaches blocking the lane behind you when being chased. Spread it around yourself and stay in it if you're being attacked by a melee enemy.

    Finally, that doesn't only apply to Cab, but remember to counterbuild. Buy beads if Ares or Hades are on the field. Aegis if it's Nu-wa or Artemis. If the enemy hunters or assassins are relying on health sap, build Brawler's Beat Stick. Blink gives you a escape, but it has a long cooldown, so map awareness is king when playing Cab. So never forget to use wards, specially if you're pushing to a tower. Retreat at the first sign of danger.
    Alright so just keep in mind that he has no escape and play safe, build attack damage to really raise the power of your bees, I personal find honey extremely useful, do to it sheer lane clearing ability, not to mention is one the biggest area effecting yet quickest tools. Plus you get to go paint the battlefield as you do it! Also body block for your hives, seems really good too.

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    Member Worshipper Enskai's Avatar
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    I used to swear by Honey back before they nerfed its early game, now I don't prioritize it at all.
    Might as well rank up Swarm followed by Hives given its your mobility.
    People dont stick in honey anyways.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead LightBeast's Avatar
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    Yeah you've already got some of the best advice to give in here. Remember that AMC's early game is weak due to his lack of mobility. Some gods are like that, weak early game, strong late or vice versa. But, this will teach you how to play carefully and constantly be aware, which is a critical skill no matter what or who you play. It's great for beginners, I think, rather than taking a god you can easily do well with and maybe not learn some of those important basics like careful placement and map awareness.

    AMC's hives are critical, and as said above, learning how to place them best will come with experience. This is especially important early game before Transcendence, because AMC is a very mana hungry hunter. A poorly placed hive that gets destroyed immediately is a huge waste of much needed mana, so try and place them as carefully as you can. You also don't even need them for lane-clearing, so resist the urge to throw one down each time you push up a lane unless you're sure you can hang around it for awhile.

    A fun trick is that you can bait people with your hives. Smart players know that hives are what makes AMC so dangerous, so you can throw one down and wait for them to go for it before hitting them with your swarm or stinger.

    And as always, your success as an ADC early game is always going to rely on your support. You can take the worst hunter in the game, give him a great support, and match him up against Apollo with a weak support, and you'll win consistently. I've seen it happen, so try and coordinate as best you can with your support. It's absolutely vital.

    After reading about all this and pondering, I really wouldn't mind a little bump on AMC's honey. Either a higher DOT or a movement speed buff like He Bo's water scroll. This would be genius, I think. Anyway, good hunting Saga.

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