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Thread: Poseidon: Why does he exist?

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    New Member Cupidhead valvelessKnight's Avatar
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    Poseidon: Why does he exist?

    At the expense of players more than likely writing this off as a "QQ thread" or saying something like "git gud scrub", I am genuinely curious to know why this god is allowed to exist in the form that he currently does. Perhaps I'm simply too much of an adherent on League's philosophy of 'counterplay', but Poseidon feels completely oppressive and unfun to play no matter the situation. I'll start by breaking down his kit from the perspective of the opponent, so Poseidon mains can take this subjectively when/if they read it and hopefully explain to me what I am missing.

    Passive: A lot of 'hidden' but not so hidden power that gives his abilities bonus damage that is, quite frankly, completely unnecessary. In a world where a similar passive such as Scylla's (who has a 'weaker' version that kicks in later in the game) exists, it provides a world of power that the opponent can literally do nothing about. You have no means of knowing how high his tide is, all you know is that you're probably going to get hit extremely hard no matter what.

    1. Reliable wave clear (if you're the type to level it first), but more likely and importantly a tool of safety that allows him to either reliably disengage from melees (on top of his ridiculous movement steroid from 2), or simply be oppressive with extra CC on his opponent by running into their face and slapping them with it. Most likely what you'll get finished off with if 3 > ult combo fails to kill you.

    2. Far too many steroids loaded onto a single ability. Makes his auto attacks incredibly easy to land in the hands of a competent player, makes them hit even harder than AA-based mages like Chronos and Freya, gives him absurd movement speed (that's still strong even post-nerf and usually stacked on top of movement buff in the mid to late game) for additional safety, rotation, or pursuit potential, as well as make his passive over the top by tripling the tide effect it gives.

    3. Most likely 'the' wave clear maxed first, self-explanatory skill that for some reason comes included with a cripple. Almost always used with Gem of Isolation, so if you're caught near the middle, you may as well simply stop moving and wait for your respawn unless you have Aegis (which just delays the inevitable if Poseidon has set up properly, which isn't exactly hard to do). With GoI it simply makes for great waveclear, great harass, obnoxious setup for his already easy to land ult, overall oppressive to fight against considering it strips away your main form of countering it.

    4. Also self-explanatory. Hits as hard, if not harder than burst ults such as Scylla, Ra, and Ao Kuang, whose ults are significantly harder to land (in my opinion but I think it's reasonable to assume this is a factual case). Will force an Aegis (when he can still easily kill you with the rest of his abilities) or just straight up kill you right then and there. Completely broken damage when factored in with full Tide.

    As a player who time and again ends up fighting Poseidons across a variety of modes on a variety of gods, these are the problems I face when fighting him. He doesn't seem to have any true counter and no real weaknesses other than a somewhat weak early game, which quickly becomes irrelevant anyway. He has the auto attacks of an AA mage, equal/higher burst than burst mages, and the mobility/safety of...safe and mobile mages, atop one of the strongest mage passives in the game. Why is he allowed to have literally the best of every world on every tool he has? For Poseidon players and opponents, is there some magic trick I am missing when it comes to shutting him down? What is the justification for letting him exist in the oppressive and frankly -unfair- way that he does?

    I'm incredibly reluctant to use this word because the community throws it around like a buzzword for completely irrelevant things, but in my humble opinion, Poseidon literally strikes me as the definition of toxic. Perhaps fun to play for the person playing him, but a miserable experience for the person fighting him.

    Is it simply a matter of biting the bullet and "git gud"? I'd honestly like to know.

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    Senior Member Honoured Lahthel's Avatar
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    Hes a glass cannon, he has very good burst damage and no reliable escapes.
    Awww HERCULES, HERCULES, HERCULES!

    My mode idea:
    http://forums.smitegame.com/showthre...-idea-Survival

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    Senior Member Infamous Myrkulyte's Avatar
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    Man, I was zhong kui, with net problems, and I came back when Poseidon was level 3(middle lane). You trust me I Outleveled him in 5 minutes? And then I just farmed him to no end?

    In joust 1v1, My mercury made a nice killing spree on a poseidon and I forced him a surrender.

    He is not so hard. The only OP version of poseidon is AA version. The ability version is as dangerous as Ra or AO.

    Strangely, When I started to play against bots, botSeidon was killing me to no end, until I figured it out.

    If the start with the whirpool, just pop up beads/magi`s blessings and you can run.
    The kraken is easy to dodge with a dash.
    His wave is as easy to juke as Ra, 1

    His trident is for boxing and mobility.
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    Member Worshipper Huntchez's Avatar
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    Poseidon is here because his brothers are here, and their ultimates combined in teamfights are legendary, though I'd much rather have Cupid or Ymir in place of Poseidon.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead MBvideo's Avatar
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    I'm after poseidon next, i rented him once and did really nicely, i was laughing alot and using his ult i shouted out every time - i call you, CTHULU!!!!!!!!!!

    but im not level 30, and according to this community im a fking retard and i don't know shit.....because im not level 30.

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    New Member Cupidhead valvelessKnight's Avatar
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    My question is for all modes and gods so your answer is somewhat helpful, but I'm moreso comparing him to other mages. You can indeed dodge kraken with a dash, but most Poseidons will set it up with a whirlpool that prevents you from dashing in the first place (and dashes aren't really a mage tool outside of Scylla who can't use it in previously mentioned whirlpool). Ra 1 is easy to dodge when factoring it by itself, but when you factor in slows and combos, you'll almost always hit with both Ra and Poseidon (like my example of disengaging on melees with it or finishing a 3-4 combo with it).

    He just seems so head and shoulders above most every other mage that I have to question why he has multiple kits in one package.

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    Senior Member Infamous Myrkulyte's Avatar
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    There are many gods so much above the others. Osiris is Nemesis 2.0 for example.
    Your only reference must be from Conquest, because while Ra is only mid tier in CQ, in assault he should be perma-banned. and that is only an example.

    I never had problems with a poseidon, mostly because they were on my team.

    Now, let`s see, I saw once a poseidon decimating an entire team by himself and kraken and was not on my team.

    Finally, ofofofof, maybe he have many things in his kit, but his Skill cap is quite huge. When you see one, buy an aegis or a purification beads, they can save you from many things,.
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    New Member Cupidhead valvelessKnight's Avatar
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    I agree, Aegis and Beads can help you against him, but only to a certain extent. Also I may be wrong, but I don't think gods are nor should be balanced around the assumption that people will just go "Oh, buy an active." That would be completely counter-intuitive when it comes to gods like Ares, Hades, etc.

    Also my reference is from every game mode, as stated. I do encounter the majority of Poseidons in Arena and Siege, though in Conquest they're played equally well albeit for different reasons. In Arena it's the ridiculous teamfight setup and burst, in Conquest it's his safety and ability to rotate extremely well. It goes back to my original point of him having too many strengths since he's versatile for literally every situation.
    Last edited by valvelessKnight; 08-20-2014 at 07:47 AM.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead brimborium's Avatar
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    Well, attacking his 4 teammates while he stands in the back: not a good idea

    I'd say, the best way to counter him is: adapting.
    Possible solutions:
    - Freeze with Ymir and then focus him with your team
    - Try to lure him out of position, try to bait his abilities against a guardian
    - With Loki or Fenrir etc.: jump on him while his teammates are distracted
    ...somehow get on to him: problem can be solved.


    I think the game would grow boring really fast if every character was mediocre and even. You'd run out of obstacles and challenges once you've figured out the "rules".

    Generally, I think this whole affair really is a problem of a "meta"-ruleset being applied to Smite (or any other MOBA-game): You get into the habit of expecting to win by simply sticking to clear rules. With rules one expects everything to be controllable. Which luckily the game isn't. In In my experience, most of the time it's fkin chaos and dexterity.
    To ease yourself from feeling treated unfair, looking at the stats proves the perception of overpowered characters to be selective, at least most of the time, as there's almost always examples in which the so called "OP"-character was utterly defeated.

    To answer the thread's question: Why' does he exist? To make the game fun.
    Last edited by brimborium; 08-20-2014 at 07:47 AM.

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    New Member Cupidhead valvelessKnight's Avatar
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    I won't say you're wrong because I do agree with your suggestion of adaptation, but when I read those solutions the most immediate questions that come to my head are:
    -Is dogpiling him with the entire team worth ignoring the other four when he has answers of his own for such a situation
    -If Loki or Fenrir get on him, what happens if he uses an active of his own or simply drops whirlpool/kraken under himself, which completely destroys assassins who try to focus him (ironically, the perceived weakest assassin - Arachne, is imo the best assassin for dealing with him).

    For me it's less of a meta problem and more of simply a straight balance problem. When other gods have defined strengths and weaknesses, what is Poseidon's weakness? He's a jack of all trades who also excels in all trades. Top-tier gods can always be utterly defeated and beaten, but it's more situational rather than par for the course. The part I fully disagree with is your statement of his existence being to make the game fun. Is he fun for the person playing him? Absolutely. Is he fun for the team playing with him? Possibly if he's carrying you, but he has no particular points of interaction that make him ''fun' to play with. Is he fun for the people playing against him? Unlikely.

    One person's enjoyment at the expense of everyone else's does not a fun game make.

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