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Thread: Compound Anti-healing Suggestion

  1. #1
    New Member Cupidhead Marchael's Avatar
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    Compound Anti-healing Suggestion

    Hi there! So something that I've been thinking a lot about lately is the state of anti-heal in Smite. Anti-heal is a HUGE counter to many gods in Smite: mages like Aphrodite and Chang'e and gods from other classes like Guan Yu and Sylvanus come to mind.

    With just a few items on your team, you can easily reduce an enemy's healing to 0% (if your team runs Pestilence/Contagion, Divine Ruin and Brawler's Beat Stick you can technically reduce their healing to -5% since P/C provides 25%, DR is 40% and BBS is 40%, and that excludes a build with Toxic Blade, which has stacking anti-heal per basic attack, or Cursed Ankh which reduces healing by another 50%). This also doesn’t take into account the many gods with anti-heal built into their kit like Serqet, Ah Puch and Cu Chulainn.

    On a god like Guan Yu, whose 1st ability does literally nothing besides heal (except reduce some cooldowns), this ability is rendered useless in a team fight where the enemy team is grouped and all the anti-heal items are active. Aphrodite experiences similar effects in that her 3's heal is null and void, leaving her with nothing but hard-to-secure damage on a slow-moving line targeter. Gods like Horus, Sylvanus, Hel and others are clearly met with the same challenges.

    A lot of people are calling for flat anti-heal nerfs, because of how strong anti-heal is at the moment and because of how useless it renders many gods, while others are vehemently against flat nerfs, saying healers would run the meta and make games frustrating.

    I believe that instead of anti-heal that stacks simply, it should stack compoundly (I’m drawing these terms from simple and compound interest). As an example, in the current, simple way that anti-heal stacks in Smite, if Achilles builds both Pestilence and Brawler's Beat Stick in the same build, the moment he hits Aphrodite with an ability, her heal is reduced by 25% from Pestilence and 40% from Brawler's, and this adds up to 65%. If Aphrodite's 3 heals for 100 HP normally, (these are bogus numbers mind you, they're just for the sake of the argument) her Love Birds would now instead heal for 35, which is a pretty substantial reduction.

    My compounding anti-healing suggestion would instead have Pestilence's 25% anti-heal applied firstly just from Achilles being near Aphrodite. Now, if she were to heal, she would heal for 75%, or 75 HP instead of 100HP. The moment he hits Aphrodite with an ability, instead of BBS adding 40% on top of 25% which would equate to 65%, it would instead reduce Aphrodite's healing by 40% from her already 25% reduced healing. Perhaps the way I explained this is confusing. Here are some numbers to help illustrate what I mean:

    Scenario: Achilles versus Aphrodite in the solo lane:
    No anti-heal: Love Birds provides 100 healing

    Simple anti-heal with Pestilence (25%) and Brawler’s Beat Stick (40%):

    100 healing * 0.25 = 25 healing
    100 healing * 0.40 = 40 healing
    100 healing - 25 healing - 40 healing = 35 healing
    Love Birds now heals for 35

    Compound anti-heal with Pestilence (25%) and Brawler’s Beat Stick (40%):

    100 healing * 0.25 = 25 healing
    100 healing - 25 healing = 75 healing
    75 healing * 0.40 = 30 healing
    75 healing - 30 healing = 45 healing
    Love Birds now heals for 45

    As you can see, compound anti-healing still nerfs Aphrodite’s healing heftily, but she still has 10 healing more, which could make all the difference in a fight. Now, let’s bring Aphrodite out of the solo lane during late game, where she has to face her solo opponent Achilles with Pestilence and Brawler’s, but also the enemy Hera with Divine Ruin and Geb with Cursed Ankh. In all situations, we’re going to assume Achilles’ Pestilence anti-heal of 25% is applied first because it’s an aura.

    Simple anti-heal with Pestilence (25%), Brawler’s Beat Stick (40%), Divine Ruin (40%) and Cursed Ankh (50%):
    100 healing * 0.25 = 25 healing
    100 healing * 0.40 = 40 healing
    100 healing * 0.40 = 40 healing
    100 healing * 0.50 = 50 healing
    100 healing - 25 healing - 40 healing - 40 healing - 50 healing = -55 healing
    Love Birds doesn’t heal at all

    Compound anti-heal with Pestilence (25%), Brawler’s Beat Stick (40%), Divine Ruin (40%) and Cursed Ankh (50%):
    100 healing * 0.25 = 25 healing
    100 healing - 25 healing = 75 healing
    75 healing * 0.40 = 30 healing
    75 healing - 30 healing = 45 healing
    45 healing * 0.40 = 18 healing
    45 healing - 18 healing = 27 healing
    27 healing * 0.50 = 13.5 healing
    Love Birds heals for 13.5

    Finally, you can see that at the end of all of the 4 anti-heal items applying to Aphrodite, she can still preserve some form of relevance in the form of 13.5 healing instead of -55 healing. I honestly don’t see why a mechanic in Smite needs to completely shut down what a god can do in the game. I totally think anti-heal is needed in a game with gods like Aphrodite, Horus and Sylvanus, but I also think that if you design an ability which has its primary task of healing, you should be able to heal at least a little bit, like your ability description says.

    Thanks for reading! What do you think? Should anti-heal be nerfed? Buffed? Changed? Removed???

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    I think the idea should be tested if it hasn't already.

    A problem here is Hel and Guan is still very strong even without this.
    Rocking the boat

  3. #3
    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    I like this idea. However it makes mathing out the antiheal effect for anyone 300 times more difficult then it should be. That said, with that being my only argument against it, this should be done. Implementing it however would require a heavy recode of all healing and antihealing effects and which take priority and in what order and if that priority changes for something like Toxic Blade.

    A point you said, would be that if antihealing was nerfed, healers would run the meta and this is totally true. It was proven a few years ago when this was the case and even with everyone buying all the unique antiheal items, it still wasn't enough, hence the introduction of Cursed Ankh and Toxic Blade, along with major buffs to every other antihealing item in the game.

    That said, I just generally think Antihealing and Healing need major nerfs altogether across the board. Aphrodite and Hel are the premier healers of Smite and quite frankly, their healing needs to come down A LOT. And that's just those two, let alone the host of other healers that could do with some number tuning as well. Personally I would like to see all healing come down by 50 to 75% depending on the god and class they are in. Along with antihealing becoming a unique debuff like they have in League called Grievous Wounds which just puts a flat % based antiheal on the affected target, with some champions being able to increase that percentage, much like Chang'e, Bacchus or Medusa would be able to in Smite in addition to the antiheal from their items. This is where it would get tricky though. Ultimate's like Serqet, Osiris and Odin would still be full healing prevention, but on other basic abilities like from Chang'e, Bacchus, Medusa, Ah Puch, etc, should all those abilities stack, or should they provide a secondary debuff, for example called Deep Wounds, that would stack on top of something like Grievous Wounds but not stack with other ability based antihealing.

    Another effect of adopting such a healing and anti heal system would be the opening of build paths and options. The entire team would no longer have to build antihealing and we could let mages focus on building a better burst and dps build, same with assassins (I still hate Divine Ruin, it just feels bad to build again for me).

    Ideally I would like to see the healing nerfs along with something like this:
    Relic Based Antihealing (Cursed Ankh only at this point) - 25% - (Debuff name Ex: Ancient Wounds)
    Item Based Antihealing - 35% - (Debuff name Ex: Grisly Wounds)
    Ability Based Antihealing - 25% - (Debuff name Ex: Deep Wounds)

    That way healing isn't completely useless, but with heavy nerfs and some antiheal thrown in, it wouldn't cause healers to run the meta. And a team would still have to invest in antiheal, either with god picks or otherwise to completely counter healing if they so wish, but building something else wouldn't necessarily have game breaking healing effects.
    Last edited by LinkNightblade; 01-31-2020 at 10:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Its a can of worms to start fiddling with.

    For instance say you nerf some healers and nerf antiheal. You will have Arthur with glads shield. Or hunters with asi and high power or crit that suddenly become very nasty to deal with. Not to mention Thanna or other sustain Gods.

    As it is most healers sit pretty well in the meta and win rates. I'd also prefer this compound reverse scaling anti heal and 100% antiheal not achieved from items. But going through a debacle of balancing this kind of antiheal I'm also not that keen on so cause it will be a long time before getting it right and nothing says we will come out with a more balanced meta on the other end.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 02-06-2020 at 05:29 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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