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Thread: FIx anti-healing [Rant]

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    New Member Cupidhead Oenone's Avatar
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    Angry FIx anti-healing [Rant]

    A little background story

    I have been playing since beta and with each progessing season the game is getting worse and worse.
    My main eye-sore till this day is anti-healing and how it stacks indefinitely.
    Ruin, Brawlers, Toxic, Pest/Cont all stack, when the enemyteam builds 3 of the given items then even asclepius ain't worth picking up anymore.

    If you want people to actively heal during a fight, how about introducing a cap or a diminishing return to how it stacks. Because quite frankly, it's just a waste to pick up a healer when it comes to team fights.
    40%+40%+40%+25% = 145% without the passive from certain gods (Bacchus, Chang'e).

    This is my first post since the beta, but god I'm feeling as if I'm about to start a change.org petition for this.
    It's plainly "unaccounted" for that you can shutdown a healer with building 2 to 3 items. What's the point of even having them?

    If you don't balance these items and how they stack, you might as well rework all the healers in braindead burst mages/warriors...

    I think I might need another 2 year break from the game.

    Thanks for reading my rant and understanding my frustation!

    Have a good one!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    The counter argument is all those matches where few to none get anti-healing.

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    New Member Cupidhead McNukems's Avatar
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    Another is that healers are for joust and casuals, only tanky healer is sylv and again, he better in joust then conquest

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    Trash Doggo Demigod Goobis's Avatar
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    Good keep it that way, playing against healers is tedious as all hell and they make the meta extremely boring and passive. Hell almost any gamemode they are in makes it a drag to play.
    Your Local Resident Trash Doggo
    I'm cheating on Anubis, Camazotz is in the dumpster now.

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    If they adopt a system like League, I would be so much happier with healers then. You're absolutely right though. It's either do carry the team or they do absolutely nothing

    Every healer needs healing nerfs followed by making all antiheal from items be a single type of debuff that doesn't stack

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Firstly that some Gods have strong antiheal in kit is fine, we have many Gods that hard counter others in various ways, healing should be no exception,

    As for items. To get 100% antiheal needs a significant investment in items or relics. Getting Brawlers over Jotuns/crusher, misses out on either 20%cdr or AS + dmg passive. Divine Pesti same thing, you can have other better utility going. Also to reach 100% you need to have the warrior on top of you, you need to get their mage dmg on you and you need to get their assass/hunter dmg on you at close to the same time, its a big investment for their team to dump so much on either you the healer (and if you are in this position as the healer you deserve to be dead) or on your front line which opens up counter play in other ways.

    If anything should be done to change up the healer meta it would be to nerf the antiheal items slightly, but not the anti heal. Give brawlers 10 pen for example. Give pesti slightly less prots. Give divine slightly less power. So that the trade off for getting anti heal is increased. Or decrease the duration anti heal remains a debuff on the target slightly it would make it easier to go from 100% to at least 60%.

    Now personally I do not think this is needed, if you go to hard the other way meta will be to go 3-5 healers cause there is no stopping it. Tank meta is already a fact and if we promote sustain on top its gonna be a heal tank fest and it ain't no fun. I think the trade off is already big enough and every healer in game still brings more to the table then just heals. If you build aphro, hel, guan, sylv around dmg or other utility besides healing you can still have a huge impact, add the fact that enemy is forced to buy less then ideal items and it is enough to win. Most healers actually have a decent win rate, hel stands out with crazy high win rate. Aphro stand out with low but in aprhos case I think it has other causes then simply that anti heal is to good.

    then even asclepius ain't worth picking up anymore.
    And yes this is correct. You do not invest more in heal if you think they will invest a lot in anti heal. The way you play is either to tank up with cdr so you are hard to kill and can provide your other utility OR you build pure dmg not having cdr on top of list but pen and power, (power makes bigger heals as well) but the point is you simply kill them instead of healing your team. Aphro can do sneaky dmg over walls and with her bomb. Hel is a monster that can just chase and strip prots for everyone. Guan has great dmg and almost impossible to peel. etc. Pick healer, make them buy items they do not want and then build with a focus to not even heal but either tank or deal dmg. Out of combat healing still works 100% and is always a great asset to have on a team, unless the mage built 100% for their healing and is useless in fights that is.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 09-02-2019 at 03:02 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    Firstly that some Gods have strong antiheal in kit is fine, we have many Gods that hard counter others in various ways, healing should be no exception,

    As for items. To get 100% antiheal needs a significant investment in items or relics. Getting Brawlers over Jotuns/crusher, misses out on either 20%cdr or AS + dmg passive. Divine Pesti same thing, you can have other better utility going. Also to reach 100% you need to have the warrior on top of you, you need to get their mage dmg on you and you need to get their assass/hunter dmg on you at close to the same time, its a big investment for their team to dump so much on either you the healer (and if you are in this position as the healer you deserve to be dead) or on your front line which opens up counter play in other ways.

    If anything should be done to change up the healer meta it would be to nerf the antiheal items slightly, but not the anti heal. Give brawlers 10 pen for example. Give pesti slightly less prots. Give divine slightly less power. So that the trade off for getting anti heal is increased. Or decrease the duration anti heal remains a debuff on the target slightly it would make it easier to go from 100% to at least 60%.

    Now personally I do not think this is needed, if you go to hard the other way meta will be to go 3-5 healers cause there is no stopping it. Tank meta is already a fact and if we promote sustain on top its gonna be a heal tank fest and it ain't no fun. I think the trade off is already big enough and every healer in game still brings more to the table then just heals. If you build aphro, hel, guan, sylv around dmg or other utility besides healing you can still have a huge impact, add the fact that enemy is forced to buy less then ideal items and it is enough to win. Most healers actually have a decent win rate, hel stands out with crazy high win rate. Aphro stand out with low but in aprhos case I think it has other causes then simply that anti heal is to good.



    And yes this is correct. You do not invest more in heal if you think they will invest a lot in anti heal. The way you play is either to tank up with cdr so you are hard to kill and can provide your other utility OR you build pure dmg not having cdr on top of list but pen and power, (power makes bigger heals as well) but the point is you simply kill them instead of healing your team. Aphro can do sneaky dmg over walls and with her bomb. Hel is a monster that can just chase and strip prots for everyone. Guan has great dmg and almost impossible to peel. etc. Pick healer, make them buy items they do not want and then build with a focus to not even heal but either tank or deal dmg. Out of combat healing still works 100% and is always a great asset to have on a team, unless the mage built 100% for their healing and is useless in fights that is.
    The one hole I can poke in your argument is that I can apply 140% with one god if I so desired. Chang'e, Bacchus, Medusa, etc. Just buy their offensive antiheal item for 40%, have the in kit antiheal apply for another 50%, which is already 90%, and add in an Ankh to make it 140% (125% with pestilence instead of divine ruin). Albeit getting Ankh on Medusa is a little risky. Keep in mind this is all with just ONE god. There is no longer a need to significantly invest in antiheal if one god can do 90%+ with incredible ease. Already with one god and those items, I've negated Asclepius completely, let alone if the rest of the team decides to buy antiheal.

    On Ah Puch I can make it 100% with just Divine Ruin and Empty the Crypts. Odin, Osiris and Serqet just nullify healing completely with their ults which I'm fine with tbh.

    Healing needs work in Smite. It needs to change or healers will always run the meta or get destroyed no matter what. Like I said earlier, I'm in favor of it adopting a system like League with major healing nerfs across the board. The only goddess I'm fine with having great heals is Aphrodite since that's basically her only job is keeping one ally alive. Actually I think she's the only single target healer right now, everyone else has AOE and multiple target healing (I don't count Chiron passive as healing since it does 50 health in any given situation and it's really bad).

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    The one hole I can poke in your argument is that I can apply 140% with one god if I so desired. Chang'e, Bacchus, Medusa, etc. Just buy their offensive antiheal item for 40%, have the in kit antiheal apply for another 50%, which is already 90%, and add in an Ankh to make it 140% (125% with pestilence instead of divine ruin). Albeit getting Ankh on Medusa is a little risky. Keep in mind this is all with just ONE god. There is no longer a need to significantly invest in antiheal if one god can do 90%+ with incredible ease. Already with one god and those items, I've negated Asclepius completely, let alone if the rest of the team decides to buy antiheal.

    On Ah Puch I can make it 100% with just Divine Ruin and Empty the Crypts. Odin, Osiris and Serqet just nullify healing completely with their ults which I'm fine with tbh.

    Healing needs work in Smite. It needs to change or healers will always run the meta or get destroyed no matter what. Like I said earlier, I'm in favor of it adopting a system like League with major healing nerfs across the board. The only goddess I'm fine with having great heals is Aphrodite since that's basically her only job is keeping one ally alive. Actually I think she's the only single target healer right now, everyone else has AOE and multiple target healing (I don't count Chiron passive as healing since it does 50 health in any given situation and it's really bad).
    I think Medusa is the worst example cause she needs to dash in and its only single target antiheal.

    Bacchus with divine on the other hand gets 80% with ease. Maybe a bit to easy.

    I didn't really factor kit+item on one god when writing the above. You might have a point there. Rebalancing antiheal, heal and healers is gonna take several patches off hit and miss I think, it will be a hassle for the balance team. And personally I think most healers are sitting pretty well in meta at the moment so I do not really see the need, maybe better to look at individual kits instead. We also have all the self healing gods like thanna, pele etc, and anubis bancroft etc. All of this will get upset if we start fiddle around with the antiheal numbers its not an easy road to take, in the end maybe necessary to get a better heal/anti heal meta but yeah I don't consider it that broken as is.

    As for relics - Im not super excited about the antiheal relic I think it could be removed.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    I think Medusa is the worst example cause she needs to dash in and its only single target antiheal.

    Bacchus with divine on the other hand gets 80% with ease. Maybe a bit to easy.

    I didn't really factor kit+item on one god when writing the above. You might have a point there. Rebalancing antiheal, heal and healers is gonna take several patches off hit and miss I think, it will be a hassle for the balance team. And personally I think most healers are sitting pretty well in meta at the moment so I do not really see the need, maybe better to look at individual kits instead. We also have all the self healing gods like thanna, pele etc, and anubis bancroft etc. All of this will get upset if we start fiddle around with the antiheal numbers its not an easy road to take, in the end maybe necessary to get a better heal/anti heal meta but yeah I don't consider it that broken as is.

    As for relics - Im not super excited about the antiheal relic I think it could be removed.
    Bacchus with Divine will give 90%. 40% from the item, 50% from in kit.

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