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Thread: Malice and Crit in general

  1. #1
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead
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    Cool Malice and Crit in general

    NOTE BEFORE YOU READ: THIS IS ALL BASED ON CONQUEST GAMEPLAY, which is the game mode that decides item balance

    Ok so I think we all know that the last couple of version of the item Malice were completely worthless and never built by anybody except certain Serqet players.

    What I am suggesting is to simply bring old Malice passive back ( the dot damage ). It has never even been a broken crit item yet it was reworked for some unknown reason. If you bring it back it will actually find itself in builds for certain assassins and hunters that build crit.

    There are many problems with a crit build. If you only build executioneer as a hunter, you will still need to apply it lategame against tanks, and still your crits will be tiny (200 to 300 MAX). In order for crit to work against all enemy players, you will need to have double pen (titans bane and executioneer). This suggests that you can only build 2 crit items which would be deathbringer and rage for a total of 65% considering rage is stacked. This leaves very little space in hunter builds for another crit item if they want to kill tanks, and that is their main objective lategame along with killing FG/GF and towers/phoenixes.

    In this regard, I suggest that executioneer gets a slight % shred increase, perhaps to 13.3% per stack to a total of 40% (yes I know it is not a completely accurate calculation). This small quality of life change will let you build it as the only pen item and still deal relevant damage.

    To anybody who hates crit as a mechanic, please consider that this game has too many ways to be killed instantly or nearly instantly. You maybe prefer to die to a Scylla crush worth 1300 damage and a poly basic, due to being a mage player. Or you might prefer dying in one Susano katana AA cancel combo because you are a jungle player and like that class to be as stupid as it is. If you die repeatedly in Clash to crit built Loki's or something which should never happen please disregard this thread.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Sorry but buffing exec just won't work. Its one of the best items in the game as it is. Titans and Obs got reworked cause to potent not to apply their pen in full on lower prot targets, exec always shreds so you can get by with just exec and no flat pen (even if more flat pen is beneficial). Also as exec is a debuff whole team benefits its a very strong item that has been subject to small changes many times, cost adjustment etc etc. And finally it sits pretty well in meta (well it has been fine a long time but if we add qins, aura item and titans in there that whole balance has not been satisfactory for a long time, I think it is now), changing exec will upset everything, not worth it to make crits more viable.

    And I love crits but you will have to find another way of suggesting something to make it viable.

    This suggests that you can only build 2 crit items which would be deathbringer and rage for a total of 65% considering rage is stacked.
    This is enough of crit chance to be viable on an adc.

    so I don't get why you are saying:
    This leaves very little space in hunter builds for another crit item if they want to kill tanks,
    cause you wouldn't need another crit item with that crit chance. Only reason to get one more crit item would be to benefit from passive of that crit item (oh you mean malice right).

    Yeah Malice I don't know, the dot passive was boring, this is interesting as it is now BUT almost in no situation can it be used.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 07-03-2019 at 01:11 PM.
    Rocking the boat

  3. #3
    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    I do agree I never understood the Malice change.

    Why people want such an obnoxiously high Crit chance is beyond understanding. A 2 Crit build has always gotten by with 40-45%, there have been builds you can just go Rage and do fine.

    You did confuse and contradict yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daycanibal View Post
    NOTE BEFORE YOU READ: THIS IS ALL BASED ON CONQUEST GAMEPLAY, which is the game mode that decides item balance

    ....

    If you die repeatedly in Clash to crit built Loki's or something which should never happen please disregard this thread.

    Thoughts?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    I do agree I never understood the Malice change.

    Why people want such an obnoxiously high Crit chance is beyond understanding. A 2 Crit build has always gotten by with 40-45%, there have been builds you can just go Rage and do fine.

    You did confuse and contradict yourself.
    It depends on your attack speed. Personally in any game I find having like 60-70% crit is a sweet spot, I mean of course higher is better but you normally trade that stat for something else. 25-35% ish is enough to make it somewhat useful. But you want over 50% to make it reliable unless you attack speed is very high then you can get by on as low as 20-25ish.
    Rocking the boat

  5. #5
    Lord of the Enigs Infamous Enigmatisty's Avatar
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    New Malice is actually really good after its buff and price cut (but that passive 5s cooldown is bullshit).

    Crit would be in a better spot if items like Poisoned Star never existed. Izanami being able to abuse it pretty much led to the item being gutted to dogshit.

    The issue here is balancing crit chance with frequent rates at which you can attack. The problem is that probability leads to inconsistent results and trying to balance around probability can lead to very botched results. This was why gods that had crit passives had them ironed out (minus Ne Zha since his 3+ult rely on crit albeit the ult always critting).

    Rage was probably the right step in an item that basically gives you 40% crit chance immediately BUT it wastes an item slot for basically no other utility besides 2 items worth of crit. It's not a bad tradeoff but it means you might as well only build it on hunters with no AS steroids who can't milk the low probability that other crit items will give once you build them.

    Old Malice needs to come back as another crit item tbh. Might as well finally nerf DB to 20% bonus crit damage if it means making it viable for a price cut. Being stuck with nothing but crit chance from Rage for a while in a 2-crit item build is really shitty.
    Actually back to Smite but my love for the forums isn't really the same anymore. May most likely not post god concepts again.

    Since forums are dying, feel free to join the official smite forum discord where most retired members chill.

  6. #6
    Member Worshipper Firellius's Avatar
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    Crit as a mechanism is just wonky, and pretty much every game takes steps to try and mitigate how awful it is to play with and against. Crit chance and crit rate are entirely unrelated, you can non-crit 5 consecutive hits on 80% chance and you can crit 5 consecutive hits on 5%.

    I really loved old Rage for this reason, as it eliminated at least -some- of the RNG, forcing a baseline consistency on crit builds, but nowadays, its just bad. There's no guarantee that it will actually increase the rate at which you crit, thus there's no guarantee that it actually does what it's supposed to.

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    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    We will see what Fail-not brings.

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