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Thread: Why Achilles/Merlin/Arthur are stupid

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    Why Achilles/Merlin/Arthur are stupid

    The whole problem with these gods are that hirez have decided to take the game into a direction where we have gods who's abilities are easier to land due to them always being wide lines, fat cones or aoe circles.


    Lets take a look at Achilles. A lot of the complaint is because he have an execute. His ult synergize very well with the fact his abilities are so huge and easy to land. His 1 is a wide cone, with huge range. His 3 are fat, instant dashes. He will take you easily to the execute threshold because his kit is designed so he never misses an ability. Nerfing his damage numbers and hp is just gonna make him boring cause then his clear and burst is will be bad.
    Imagine if his 1 and 3 were smaller but with the same high damage numbers. Wouldn't that make room for more counterplay and even decision making on your part when playing as him? Im sure this would make him a much more fun god for both teams.

    The same can be applied to Merlin and Arthur.
    A thing both of these gods have in common is that they have tons of Aoe abilities with a million effects.
    This is a good setup for them to hit you with their harder skillhots which is their line abilities. All gods have one ability that set up for your next ability. Normaly gods can use this combo one time. While these guys can use it multiple times. This mean, that there is never an opening.. and by the time they have rotated through their kit, their abilities are most likely up again.
    When it comes to other stance changers, Ullr can only stun once. 1/3 of his kit are steroids and Artio unlike Arthur have less mobility, less range and she doesnt have an ultimate.


    Even if Hirez have decided to go for this kind of gods with easy to land abilities they dont have to overdo it. Both Merlin and Arthur should have some of their abilities nerfed in terms of size instead of nerfing their stats....

    Example Merlin: His fire ray could be thinner. Its an line ability that applies a burn, meaning he can hit multiple enemies with it and still do some damage even if he doesn't focus one target. It is fairly easy to land and doesn't have to be this wide.
    His black vortex could also be reduced in size. He doesn't need the ability to be able to take 70% of someones Hp from max range with almost unavoidable aoe damage. His arcana stance is busted when he have gem of isolation as he pulls enemies back into the vortex for max damage. He does this from very long range with no cost of his own safety. It doesnt need to be so strong on its own unless someone holding the enemy inside it.

    Example Arthur: both his spins doesn't have to be a so thick and the cone on his 1 doesn't have to be as wide as Ah Pach ult.

    We saw changes like these to Susano and he is in a much better state now than when he was when he was released.
    Last edited by Glorfindal; 05-18-2019 at 06:07 AM.

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    I haven't thought about this aspect a lot regarding these Gods and after considering it, I completely agree with you. Achilles is incredibly hard to juke, if you are better juker then they are aimer you can dodge his ult it can also be body blocked by teammates, its pretty much the only counter play there is to him. If someone jukes his 1 then they are a MUCH better juker then you are aimer. So yes instead of numbers tweak the skill needed to play him to increase chances of jukes and counter play. Ymir who has a similar spell have about same cone / aoe and wind up time I guess but for some reason it feels a bit harder to land, just 0.1sec between button press and stun makes a whole lot of difference I think things like this could be looked at.

    In case of Arthur I do like his kit as it is, he feels very good as he is as a brawler. The ult can be juked and you can actually play around his kit. If he needs more nerfs I rather look in numbers in his case or cooldowns. Arthurs 1 line ability isn't actually that easy to land at all times I think that is fine. If you sit at like 25-30yds its fairly easy to juke it which is the breaking point for most abilities that are line shots where they get hard to land.

    Merlin actually doesn't have that good range but I guess playing with your idea can actually make him more skill dependent and rewarding to play/ play against. Instead of the fire width I would maybe rather look at its range but I reckon both can be good changes and maybe even doing both just a tiny bit will make a huge difference. Maybe reduce aoe of ice shards or the purple spinning ball a bit. And I wanna say just a 5yd total range in diameter can make a load of a difference. I think Merlins pull is fine, he needs some team CC in kit but the dmg spinning thing I think is a bit on the large side yes.

    You are also completely right in that number tweaking can make Gods boring and unsatisfying. Your argument is the same argument I had when they changed Ravana, a wider longer 1 but in optimal cases less dmg. Higher dmg that is harder to land is much more rewarding and if someone owns you with such a God (like landing a Ra ult on you when you are juking like a mad man you can nothing but tip your hat to their predicts). That is really what makes this game better and gods more interesting, harder to land kits but that also come with a nice reward. Back to merlin or any other God I think its fine most Gods have some ez to land ability in kit but I also think its great if they have an ability that is harder to pull off with greater reward, team play to set it all up etc. Gods that don't need setup, are ez to land, shouldn't have abundance in dmg and CC as well. Something to think about not only for current problems in meta but also for future releases.

    Many new Gods had fairly easy to land kits, Jorg in particular here comes to mind (except his ult). Set doesn't really follow this formula though and that is probably why many feel he is interesting even with a pretty boring kit on paper. I mean one line shot and 2 stims is basicly what he has.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 05-18-2019 at 10:44 AM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead CallOfThe4skin's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with you Glor

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    Senior Member Honoured Diamondrainn's Avatar
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    Merlin and Arthur were created for players who don't need skill to play them. Easy to play characters mean people will play them and stay in the game. Harder to play characters don't really get that fame because they are challenging to play. It kind of irritates me when I see characters that require no skill to play just do so much amount of damage, and top it off have a very good escape ability.

    Now with Achilles, I think he's a different story. He's great to play, requires skill, but his kit seems to be very overpowering and that's why he's getting a nerf on the next patch.
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead CallOfThe4skin's Avatar
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    Lololol skill to play Achilles?

    Achilles is the very definition of a no skill God. With a bloated kit. Every skill in his kit is as easy to hit as any of Arthur's or Merlin's.

    Easy to confirm stun, movement speed passive, crazy heal, potential to kill 2-3 gods with execute ult, ridiculous range on basics, no skill shots whatsoever.

    Tell me again how he's hard to play??

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    It just came over me, but why does Set and Merlins Tps have to be so fast. TPs are op compared to other movement abilities because they cant be stopped by Awilix pulling you, or interrupted during the ability like dashes can.
    Every other TP have a drawback to balance out this...Daji have a charge-up time, Thor hammer takes a while to travel. Set Tp is the longest tp in game but his requires a setup...still its so fast it is impossible to chase or react to him jumping on you. Merlin a god with only aoes and good cc doesnt need an insant TP.

    While we are on Tp....nerf blink. We dont need this shit having 90 sec cooldown and 55 range tp. Every game I play, blink gets more and more broken. Now even duo lane both building blink cause wtf can you do about it? The fact that the jungler who already have as great XP and gold income as the midlaner gets to kill someone for free in lvl 2 and every 90 sec thereafter.
    On top of their incredible farm they have the ability to affect other lanes all the time with their presence and blink also makes them even more busted cause now they also get to kill or force enemy to back for free.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorfindal View Post
    While we are on Tp....nerf blink. We dont need this shit having 90 sec cooldown and 55 range tp.
    Good thing it doesn't, then. It's got a 120s cooldown, not 90s. It only has a 90s cooldown if you build relic dagger.

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    Senior Member Honoured Diamondrainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallOfThe4skin View Post
    Lololol skill to play Achilles?

    Achilles is the very definition of a no skill God. With a bloated kit. Every skill in his kit is as easy to hit as any of Arthur's or Merlin's.

    Easy to confirm stun, movement speed passive, crazy heal, potential to kill 2-3 gods with execute ult, ridiculous range on basics, no skill shots whatsoever.

    Tell me again how he's hard to play??
    I'm not an Achilles player but when I play him, I think he's a bit more challenging than Merlin and Arthur. With Arthur I can mash buttons and do fucking well LOL.
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead CallOfThe4skin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondrainn View Post
    I'm not an Achilles player but when I play him, I think he's a bit more challenging than Merlin and Arthur. With Arthur I can mash buttons and do fucking well LOL.
    Yup pretty much the same with Achilles. Get glad shield. Hut your 2 then your 1 almost full health. Opponents are running away... Hit your 2, rely on that movement speed passive, hit your 3 then lmb,lmb,lmb,1,lmb,lmb...dead. not much skill with Achilles either

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondrainn View Post
    I'm not an Achilles player but when I play him, I think he's a bit more challenging than Merlin and Arthur. With Arthur I can mash buttons and do fucking well LOL.
    I'd say of those 3, Achilles is the easiest to play. Basic kit goes through everything, basic, easy understand and versatile, so he is hard to peel, good range, quick activation etc. I was wondering why he is easier then ymir to stun with and I know why now, his stun animation doesn't root him, infinitely easier to land cause of that. The only thing that can be a challenge to land with Achilles is his ult, it can be blocked etc etc. It has long range and can be used to get out of trouble, its almost easier to stop an Arthur escaping then an achilles lol. Also execute on a tank is just so cheese, can go full super tank and still deal 30% of someones hp.

    BTW the most brain dead cancer thing to play gotta be tank morrigan. Great initiation on her basic kit, still good base dmg, and while really tanky can still buy herself 10sec of going super high dmg thanks to her ult. A squish turning into a tank/initiator for 10sec can be devastating and one of the ways she was probably intended to be played, you can counter play by killing her before she even ults, but sticking lonos on her and never die and still have super high burst available with ult is just silly.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 05-23-2019 at 01:36 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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