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Thread: Magical items overpowering physical items

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    New Member Cupidhead wildsaw's Avatar
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    Exclamation Magical items overpowering physical items

    So since the rework of the physical items and the magical items. Magical items have been so much better then the physical ones. For instance divine ruin gives 80 magical power while its counter part brawlers beat stick gives 40, and these items are used the same way, but the magical items are more powerful. This is makes it very hard for physicals to build high damage, because they are so limited in power while mages can 1 shot anything in there way. Also Guardians are taking advantage of this making bruisers like Cabrakan, Kumbarkana, and Ymir extreme hard to fight with the high damage plus health. Warriors don't need this physical damage very much with the new gods Horus and king Arthur. But assassins and hunters need it badly to even to get close to killing high damage magical gods, and high health and protected warriors in late game. This needs to be brought into the light

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    Junior Member Cupidhead MakoMajo's Avatar
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    Hi-Rez panders to damage Guardians, they don't care about assassins or hunters

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Yeah they buffed a lot of mage items, I think a bit to hastly. I think some of the utility items in particular should be bit less power.

    I don't think brawlers needs 80 power for example, would be very OP. And not sure divine in particular needs a nerf. But power I think should be a bit harder to get by for mages, especially on utility builds. A full util build, asplec, magus, gem, obsidian should maybe have some 30 or 50 less power or smth along those lines. This is one reason merlin is strong, he utilizes these items well, combine that with overtuned basic kit. Another I think is zhong. And even raijin can benefit a lot from such build. Zeus, puch, pos as well and you got almost top of the meta. I think looking at these items would balance out the mage meta a lot. The more burst, one shot, oriented mages are not seen as much if I am not wrong, I mean scylla, ra, he bo, hera, thoth, vulcan, disc. Even if some of them are indeed picked and some are strong and perform well to the others are just more consistent and flexible right now it seems. And I think its more an issue of some items rather then kits.

    The rings and dmg item seem to sit well now I think. But I think maybe meta would feel better with a bit less pwr on utility items.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Please actually go research the mechanics behind magical and physical power first please. If you had, you'd notice that magical power gets soft capped at 900. Physical gets soft capped at 400. Physical gods still have the better item set. Way more versatility, way more item selection and way cheaper for their core items vs the magical core items right now. Average core mage item cost is 2800-3000. Average core physical item cost sits around 2300-2500. The power capping is also spilt like this cause of the basic attack scaling for the classes. Mages and guardians get 20%, hunters get 100%, assassins and Warriors get 115% with very few exceptions.

    That said some of the utility items could do with some tweaking for both physical and magical variants. Smite is suffering from major power creep right now. Just look at season 3 vs season 6.

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    Senior Member Honoured Saerireth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    Please actually go research the mechanics behind magical and physical power first please. If you had, you'd notice that magical power gets soft capped at 900. Physical gets soft capped at 400. Physical gods still have the better item set. Way more versatility, way more item selection and way cheaper for their core items vs the magical core items right now. Average core mage item cost is 2800-3000. Average core physical item cost sits around 2300-2500. The power capping is also spilt like this cause of the basic attack scaling for the classes. Mages and guardians get 20%, hunters get 100%, assassins and Warriors get 115% with very few exceptions.

    That said some of the utility items could do with some tweaking for both physical and magical variants. Smite is suffering from major power creep right now. Just look at season 3 vs season 6.
    Pretty much this and that magical power items give a lot of power because fighting is not entirely everything a mage character does, but there's healers as well who rely on high magical power in order to have their heals be impactful during the fight.

    You have healers, and then you have to face the fact that with a few exceptions (chronos and freya come to mind), mages have to rely a lot more on abilities than they do on basic attacks in order to deal damage during a fight. They can't just keep holding left click and deal a decent amount of damage like warriors can when their abilities are down. That and their base basic attack values as well as per level scaling are much lower that assassins or hunters.

    That's why this gap exists.

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    yeah you are both right.

    But not to long ago a lot of Gods got a bit more defense stats, prot increase. Before this aura prot items got nerfed. At around same time a lot of flat pen items was buffed for mages, divine more dmg, deso got introduced some time before this, magus was buffed (nerfed again later), chronos got more pwr etc. Meanwhile on phys side not much happened, hydra and trans buff, that was about it and now gladshield and blackthorn buff. I don't think phys is undertuned, I think it sits pretty well now but some utility mage items just give a bit to much I think. Gem and chronos in particular give a lot. Speaking of autoattacks and that we don't toss spells all the time, Chronos gives magicals 50% cdr cap which is a huge deal, add nice mp5 AND plenty power to boot and its just such a strong item that can hardly ever be overlooked. Back in the day it gave like 50? I think maybe 70 would be better, and reduce gem of iso power with 10 at same time or smth like that. Also poly gives ability to have hard autos to weave in between spells, if you cycle well there should hardly be any downtime on any mage, thing is just that just going pure ability on many mages is just better and spend freetime to reposition and juke.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 05-29-2019 at 12:33 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    New Member Cupidhead wildsaw's Avatar
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    What would be cool is if they made blessings change how your god scales.

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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    hasn't this always been a thing though?

    especially given that the caps for the damages are different

    physical - 400
    magical - 900
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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    yeah you are both right.

    But not to long ago a lot of Gods got a bit more defense stats, prot increase. Before this aura prot items got nerfed. At around same time a lot of flat pen items was buffed for mages, divine more dmg, deso got introduced some time before this, magus was buffed (nerfed again later), chronos got more pwr etc. Meanwhile on phys side not much happened, hydra and trans buff, that was about it and now gladshield and blackthorn buff. I don't think phys is undertuned, I think it sits pretty well now but some utility mage items just give a bit to much I think. Gem and chronos in particular give a lot. Speaking of autoattacks and that we don't toss spells all the time, Chronos gives magicals 50% cdr cap which is a huge deal, add nice mp5 AND plenty power to boot and its just such a strong item that can hardly ever be overlooked. Back in the day it gave like 50? I think maybe 70 would be better, and reduce gem of iso power with 10 at same time or smth like that. Also poly gives ability to have hard autos to weave in between spells, if you cycle well there should hardly be any downtime on any mage, thing is just that just going pure ability on many mages is just better and spend freetime to reposition and juke.
    Poly has an internal cooldown though. Hydra's doesn't. I do agree tho that a few utility items do give too much power (Iso come to mind, as does Ethereal). Chronos Pendant though is perfectly fine as is. It's supposed to be the premiere cooldown item, and with its current cost, I'm fine with it being how it is.

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    Chronos Pendant ... with its current cost,.
    You might be right there.

    Didn't actually know poly had 3 cd internal cdr, was it always like that? I haven't bought it for ages. That does a load of difference actually.

    Note I'm not saying mage shouldn't have more power then phys, they should of course. If we go back 3 years though mage builds that wasn't full power, like utility builds probably had like 100-200 less power in total, with scalings this can be a lot different. And I'm arguing maybe that should be at about 75-150 instead, a small tuning down. Phys has maybe gotten 50 or so more power, more easily put into a build, but in some cases, like hybrid builds its actually harder to stack up both pwr and AS with it. For pure dps I think it means very little, but for utility I think mages have it a bit too easy now compared to phys. Magicals can go utility and still sport pretty nice dmg while phys must choose much more what to sacrifice.
    Rocking the boat

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