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Thread: About Camelot, Merlin, and Jorm's lore...

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    New Member Cupidhead onyx801's Avatar
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    About Camelot, Merlin, and Jorm's lore...

    So....there are a lot of unanswered questions within the story of Smite. Given that the mythology angle and potential for an interesting story is what drew me to this game...I was hoping someone could give me some ideas or theories if not outright answers to some questions.

    First is Jormungandr. The official in game lore, his wiki page, Hel's lore, and Jorm's quote to Loki in game all allude to him being the trickster's son. However...according to the official website's version of the lore and the lore in the Camelot event...he is FAR OLDER THAN LOKI, hell even older than every single pantheon that has ever existed. Is there an answer to this contradiction? The mortals apparently made the gods and the pantheons, so do they have some control over Jormungandr, who has apparently gone by many names across countles cycles of creation, or did the Norse just throw him into their myths without any true connection to Loki? The mental gymnastics with this is gonna give me an ulcer.

    As for Merlin and Camelot...Merlin supposedly was a god from the previous cycle of creation that enforcer of balance we know as Jormungandr had brought to an end. He escaped, and took the energies from his now deceased pantheon and forged it into Excalibur, and fled. Where did he go to? Apparently another friggin dimension. One we would later know to be home to Camelot, where Merlin would forget who and what he is. Just how much of Camelot and it's history influenced by the GODLY nature of Merlin and Excalibur? Do any other gods hold influence here? The Saxons clearly know and worship the Norse gods. So god worship is a thing here. Yet the existence of this dimension seems to be something even gods like Ra and Hera knew NOTHING of. Camelot loosely knows of the main world as Avalon, but the overall relationship between both worlds is shrouded in mystery. Even MERLIN in all his wisdom hasn't given us a solid answer here.

    So...is there any ideas or theories abut these unanswered questions? Perhaps someone at Hi-Rez would be kind as to shed some light as long as it's not a spoiler to any major story coming up? Idk how many here care for the story, it's just something that's been annoying me since it was all thrust upon us. If anyone has anything to say on this, I'd appreciate it greatly.

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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    I believe, and do not quote me on this, they use the most well known, or well recorded version of the lore for Gods.
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    New Member Cupidhead onyx801's Avatar
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    But with Jormungandr they give a conflicting narrative.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    My theory is that Hi-Rez doesn't give a shit about lore and that's why we have loose ends. Seriously, they made Hades a bad guy, you expect any kind of logic or fidelity from these asshats?
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    New Member Cupidhead onyx801's Avatar
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    While him being one of the villains was an interesting choice, they gave some reasons to it and didn't really leave any huge plot holes. The only one I can think of has an easy theoretical answer behind it.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyx801 View Post
    While him being one of the villains was an interesting choice, they gave some reasons to it and didn't really leave any huge plot holes. The only one I can think of has an easy theoretical answer behind it.
    Uhh, no, they didn't give an interesting reason, they just up and fucking broke his character to squeeze him into this mold. Zeus, too. It's not a plot hole but it's sure as hell not faithful to the character.
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    New Member Cupidhead onyx801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Uhh, no, they didn't give an interesting reason, they just up and fucking broke his character to squeeze him into this mold. Zeus, too. It's not a plot hole but it's sure as hell not faithful to the character.
    Zeus hardly HAD a role. At most he said he didn't want a war, and was triple teamed to death by Loki, Hel, and Ao Kuang. And i said the CHOICE to make Hades a villain was interesting. I didn't say the REASON was. But they GAVE him a reason. With Hades, initially it looked like a power grab, but not only was he annoyed at the constant squabbling between the gods, he wanted to make a world where all was undead, no more death, no more suffering, where everyone can be with their loved ones eternally. I wouldn't lable him a EVIL villain like Hel and Fenrir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onyx801 View Post
    Zeus hardly HAD a role. At most he said he didn't want a war, and was triple teamed to death by Loki, Hel, and Ao Kuang. And i said the CHOICE to make Hades a villain was interesting. I didn't say the REASON was. But they GAVE him a reason. With Hades, initially it looked like a power grab, but not only was he annoyed at the constant squabbling between the gods, he wanted to make a world where all was undead, no more death, no more suffering, where everyone can be with their loved ones eternally. I wouldn't lable him a EVIL villain like Hel and Fenrir.
    For what little Zeus said, it was deeply out of character. He mentioned gods having to serve mortals, which doesn't fit him at all; Zeus never indicates seeing gods and mortals having a symbiotic relationship, he just puts his dick where it doesn't belong and calls it a day. He did serve a role, too--his assassination was what got Athena to do stuff. But the decision to have Zeus fill the the "dead father that must be avenged" role doesn't work unless it focuses on the vengeance only being an obligation and not some act of apparent, unearned loyalty.

    The Last Jedi was interesting. Doesn't make it a good movie. If anything, the fact that it was a total shitshow was the interesting part. Similarly, making Hades this kind of villain at all just doesn't work. It's better than what Disney did, and I'll admit that I didn't know much about what happens after those shitty comics; but there's still the problem of Hades being too active. His role as a god is that of doing his job and doing it well, not trying to change the world. He drew the shortest straw, but he took it quietly and proceeded to be the most chill of his brothers. In almost every myth about him, he's not going around doing things, he's just doing his job. The only exception I can think of is the Rape of Persephone (no version of which, far as I'm aware, actually says outright that he raped her, ironically, only kidnapped, which gives me a lot more respect for the man tbh). But that's it, that's the single most proactive thing he's ever done. A hostile takeover of Olympus isn't his style. Now, if HR wanted to focus on what it takes to push a man like that to do something so drastic, they could have really gone into the meat of his character and fleshed him out into something more Hades than Hades; but, instead, they just half-assed it like they do with everything.
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    New Member Cupidhead onyx801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    For what little Zeus said, it was deeply out of character. He mentioned gods having to serve mortals, which doesn't fit him at all; Zeus never indicates seeing gods and mortals having a symbiotic relationship, he just puts his dick where it doesn't belong and calls it a day. He did serve a role, too--his assassination was what got Athena to do stuff. But the decision to have Zeus fill the the "dead father that must be avenged" role doesn't work unless it focuses on the vengeance only being an obligation and not some act of apparent, unearned loyalty.

    The Last Jedi was interesting. Doesn't make it a good movie. If anything, the fact that it was a total shitshow was the interesting part. Similarly, making Hades this kind of villain at all just doesn't work. It's better than what Disney did, and I'll admit that I didn't know much about what happens after those shitty comics; but there's still the problem of Hades being too active. His role as a god is that of doing his job and doing it well, not trying to change the world. He drew the shortest straw, but he took it quietly and proceeded to be the most chill of his brothers. In almost every myth about him, he's not going around doing things, he's just doing his job. The only exception I can think of is the Rape of Persephone (no version of which, far as I'm aware, actually says outright that he raped her, ironically, only kidnapped, which gives me a lot more respect for the man tbh). But that's it, that's the single most proactive thing he's ever done. A hostile takeover of Olympus isn't his style. Now, if HR wanted to focus on what it takes to push a man like that to do something so drastic, they could have really gone into the meat of his character and fleshed him out into something more Hades than Hades; but, instead, they just half-assed it like they do with everything.
    Idk hasn't Zeus gone out of his way for mortals several times in mythology? Not saying he is a perfect ruler or anything, oh hell no he isn't. Even character lore shows he isn't perfect.

    As for Hades, it's not even CLOSE to how bad that disaster of a film was. And while I agree it could have been fleshed out MORE, again at least he was given SOME kind of reason. It's not like he went out of his way just for power for power sake. THAT would be the most out of character. I feel what they where going for was this. He saw things getting out of hand. Saw the constant struggles between the gods, the growing number of them, and the effect it had on the mortals, gods, and world alike. He knew the only way to try and fix things was through immediate action, and thus TRIED to talk to his brother about it. Zeus didn't budge. So Hades went out of his way to fix the problem the only way he knew how. I'm not trying to say their story here was perfect, I'm just saying it's not like Hades acted on a whim. He saw things ending badly and tried to get Zeus to act, before eventually taking matters into his own hands.

    As we eventually see with Jormungandr's whole monologue of the gods being a parasitic plague on existence, where he comes to wipe them out to cleanse the world for a time as they grow powerful enough to effect the fabric of creation, Hades in a way was kind of justified for taking action when Zeus only let the problem perpetuate. Hades had good intentions. His methods were just...a bit extreme.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onyx801 View Post
    Idk hasn't Zeus gone out of his way for mortals several times in mythology? Not saying he is a perfect ruler or anything, oh hell no he isn't. Even character lore shows he isn't perfect.
    Except he never indicates that he's supposed to "serve" mortals. Most of what he does is either A. putting them in their place or B. being a creepy sex offender. The comic paints him as a good guy despite this, like his death was actually a bad thing.

    As for Hades, it's not even CLOSE to how bad that disaster of a film was.
    I said that.

    And while I agree it could have been fleshed out MORE, again at least he was given SOME kind of reason. It's not like he went out of his way just for power for power sake. THAT would be the most out of character. I feel what they where going for was this. He saw things getting out of hand. Saw the constant struggles between the gods, the growing number of them, and the effect it had on the mortals, gods, and world alike. He knew the only way to try and fix things was through immediate action, and thus TRIED to talk to his brother about it. Zeus didn't budge. So Hades went out of his way to fix the problem the only way he knew how. I'm not trying to say their story here was perfect, I'm just saying it's not like Hades acted on a whim. He saw things ending badly and tried to get Zeus to act, before eventually taking matters into his own hands.
    I get what you're saying, but my point is that that's still not in-character for him and, therefore, is still not acceptable.
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