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Thread: Loki

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    New Member Cupidhead ImaGuest's Avatar
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    Loki

    So everyone is just gonna pretend that loki was actually good after the nerf after years of people calling him bad? im confused.

    what i most dont understand is, Players think this nerf was intended to bring loki down from what hes been up until season 4. it isnt. They clearly stated in the patch notes that loki was most healthiest in the game when he was right below balance. Meaning he was never intended to be a balanced character and they continue to call his play style a one of a kind. which basically means loki will never be reworked.

    which means if loki doesn't perform well enough for his play style in season 6 the nerf will either be reverted or he will be buffed.

    This is not a good nerf because loki loosing his damage reduction is gonna hit him big. i honestly dont think this nerf will hit live, its to big of a nerf honestly.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaGuest View Post
    So everyone is just gonna pretend that loki was actually good after the nerf after years of people calling him bad? im confused.
    Apparently Loki was not garbage during S5 because of some item changes that made him able to burst people down much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaGuest View Post
    which means if loki doesn't perform well enough for his play style in season 6 the nerf will either be reverted or he will be buffed.
    Or he will be ignored like he has been since his inception up until he was somewhat relevant in S5.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaGuest View Post
    This is not a good nerf because loki loosing his damage reduction is gonna hit him big. i honestly dont think this nerf will hit live, its to big of a nerf honestly.
    It honestly will not affect Loki very much, if at all.

    He's already invisible while stealthed, making it harder to actually land damage on him, with a bunch of MS so it's even harder to figure out where he might be and if you do hit him he doesn't get revealed like every other god with stealth.

    Like, literally, he still has a TON of extra utility on his stealth over that of Ao Kuang and The Morrigan, both of them do fine without the myriad of stuff that Loki gets. Loki should be no different.
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    New Member Cupidhead Imaguest1's Avatar
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    If the nerf wasnt going to affect him then what was the point of it? They were obviously trying to weaken something in his gameplay.

    That mitigation made it where he could go glass cannon and not get 1 shotted by a poseidon who ultimated hisself while he was stealthed. They should have lowered it to like 20 or 18%.

    Loki wasnt even hard to counter why would they take away the little defense he actually had to go against his hard counters?

    I highly doubt this nerf will hit live and if it does its not gonna take much time for a revert or buff.

    You have gods in this game that were far more valuable than loki that got buffs, like wtf?

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaguest1 View Post
    If the nerf wasnt going to affect him then what was the point of it? They were obviously trying to weaken something in his gameplay.
    Because they wanted to do something to react to his stats.

    Many past changes Hi-Rez have made to things have had 0 effect, but didn't stop them making them.

    Like, the number of times they've tried to "Nerf" an item by increasing its cost by like 100g is pretty high and the end result is literally nothing changed in actual gameplay, people still just bought those items as often as they did before.

    That mitigation made it where he could go glass cannon and not get 1 shotted by a poseidon who ultimated hisself while he was stealthed. They should have lowered it to like 20 or 18%.
    Or maybe Loki players could learn to not go walking into Pos ult? Or learn to use Aegis and completely avoid the damage of Pos ult.

    There's so much stuff on Loki's stealth that he honestly doesn't need. He didn't need the damage reduction, he doesn't need the movement speed, he doesn't need the unique capacity to remain in stealth even if damaged. Yet, he had all those things. It's just, up until S5, he just wasn't good enough for any of these things to really matter.

    Now that he's actually playable, it's pretty obvious how stupidly bloated the skill is and how unnecessary it is when his playstyle tends to be more hit and run, getting in and blowing up a target.

    Loki wasnt even hard to counter why would they take away the little defense he actually had to go against his hard counters?
    Because he's annoying to deal with. His stealth skill currently has very little counterplay because of the amount of effects it provides. This meant that all the Loki counters were to do with dealing with him after he's gotten to do what he wants.

    Removing one of the effects of his stealth now means that there's a little bit of counterplay, if you can find him and hit him in stealth you're rewarded by having more effective damage.

    I highly doubt this nerf will hit live and if it does its not gonna take much time for a revert or buff.
    I guarantee you that this nerf will go live and that 99% of Loki players will not even notice it.

    You have gods in this game that were far more valuable than loki that got buffs, like wtf?
    Other gods aren't as annoying as Loki. Other gods are more "Valuable" but don't have as good stats in ranked as Loki.

    Of course, that is to say that Hi-Rez actually follow any sense of logic when choosing who to buff/nerf. They pick gods at seemingly random...
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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Apparently Loki was not garbage during S5 because of some item changes that made him able to burst people down much better.
    Right, because the god known for nearly one-shotting targets suffered from low damage. That was totally his problem. Not the...everything else...

    ...Regardless, the damage mitigation needed to go. It didn't make any sense with his playstyle or niche. If anything, nerfing his AAs to have less than 1 DPS instead of just nerfing the scaling from power was the poor choice here. Whatever, if it means he has to be overhauled in the future and TF finally has to acknowledge that he's the worst-designed god in the game, so be it.
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    New Member Cupidhead Imaguest1's Avatar
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    So your saying its not that big of a deal that they nerfed a god that was barely valuable? Do you know how much 25% damage reduction is? Thats alot. Thats 25% damage cut off of all attacks, thats kinda a big deal in smite.

    Why would they make such a big change when loki is barely even valuable. Being anoyying isnt a reason to nerf a gods performance its kind of a opinion duude.

    Loki is a complete glass cannon. Loki has tons of counterplay outside of his stealth that makes him ass. Its not hard to turn around and shit on loki with a little defense. So why would they nerf his mitigation? He already gets 1 shotted if caught slipping.

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    New Member Cupidhead Imaguest1's Avatar
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    Loki is a extremely popular god, most people who play him dont like him they love him because of how alien his playstyle is compared to everyone else.

    This nerf will make them bitch and cry and they will either buff or revert him. They still clearly dont have any plans to rework him based on what was said in the patch notes.

    Now currently loki has 0 actual stat based defenses. He is a walking glass now. Im willing to bet that this will be adjusted before hitting live servers.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Right, because the god known for nearly one-shotting targets suffered from low damage. That was totally his problem. Not the...everything else...
    Well, that's the reasoning given by all the people who keep saying "Loki is a legit good god now and has high pick/win rates at Diamond"

    That changes to some items (Or was it a single item? Like Heartseeker or Hydra's... I forget which, but apparently one of those is "Teh Nuts" on him in S5) made him more viable somehow by making him burst harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imaguest1 View Post
    So your saying its not that big of a deal that they nerfed a god that was barely valuable? Do you know how much 25% damage reduction is? Thats alot. Thats 25% damage cut off of all attacks, thats kinda a big deal in smite.

    Why would they make such a big change when loki is barely even valuable. Being anoyying isnt a reason to nerf a gods performance its kind of a opinion duude.

    Loki is a complete glass cannon. Loki has tons of counterplay outside of his stealth that makes him ass. Its not hard to turn around and shit on loki with a little defense. So why would they nerf his mitigation? He already gets 1 shotted if caught slipping.
    25% mitigation is a lot. But, he's not the kind of god that relied on it.

    He relied upon using the fact that he was completely invisible and undetectable (Unless the Loki was bad and popped Aimed Strike at a time where its sound cue would give away his position) to get up to a target and blow them up.

    If he was walking through damage in order to do this, then he was bad and undermining the very core of what the skill is supposed to be doing.

    Also, having counterplay AFTER using his stealth to do what he wants has no bearing on the balancing of a skill with no counterplay. Especially for a god like Loki who's entire worth is front heavy, he gets in, he blows all of his skills onto a target within 0.5 seconds and then he runs away.

    Either outright killing his target, or maiming them to the point of having to retreat to base, especially if the Loki didn't die so is putting the pressure of another gank from out of nowhere because of lel 0 counterplay stealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imaguest1 View Post
    This nerf will make them bitch and cry and they will either buff or revert him.
    They will not.

    Just like they didn't listen to all of the bitching and crying of people asking to nerf Loki for the past 6 years didn't result in any changes to him until recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imaguest1 View Post
    Now currently loki has 0 actual stat based defenses. He is a walking glass now. Im willing to bet that this will be adjusted before hitting live servers.
    Just like basically every other Assassin then?
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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaguest1 View Post
    So your saying its not that big of a deal that they nerfed a god that was barely valuable?
    That's not at all what I'm saying. My point is that it needed to go and he was already shit, so it changes very little.

    Do you know how much 25% damage reduction is? Thats alot. Thats 25% damage cut off of all attacks, thats kinda a big deal in smite.
    Yes, and it doesn't belong on a stealth-based ganker. Loki should be made strong in other areas to compensate; I personally think the key lies mostly in reworking Decoy to function as more reliable poke or even CC and maybe giving him an entirely new 3.

    Why would they make such a big change when loki is barely even valuable. Being anoyying isnt a reason to nerf a gods performance its kind of a opinion duude.
    Because he's seen his highest winrate in a while. That doesn't make him good, just successful; but because TF is constantly high on skooma, their decision-making makes no sense. Case in point: their decision to give up on remodels because of a shitty Bacchus meme.

    Loki is a complete glass cannon. Loki has tons of counterplay outside of his stealth that makes him ass. Its not hard to turn around and shit on loki with a little defense. So why would they nerf his mitigation? He already gets 1 shotted if caught slipping.
    This nerf is really just half of an unfinished power shift that, knowing HR, will never be completed. He should be reworked entirely, and a good rework entails taking the mitigation and replacing it with something more suited to his playstyle. Loki shouldn't be tanky. Ideally, he'd have some kind of mind games to him that would make him viable. I get what you're saying, but the reality is that he's a broken god and no one change can fix him or make matters worse than they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Well, that's the reasoning given by all the people who keep saying "Loki is a legit good god now and has high pick/win rates at Diamond"

    That changes to some items (Or was it a single item? Like Heartseeker or Hydra's... I forget which, but apparently one of those is "Teh Nuts" on him in S5) made him more viable somehow by making him burst harder.
    But, again, that argument falls flat in the face of the reality that his burst was never a weakness for him. His issue's always been a lack of teamfight presence. Yeah, his damage is in greater supply now, but you're in denial if he couldn't saw this boat in half before. At the end of the day, he either forces his team into a 4v4 or a 4v5 where no other assassin has to make that compromise. That's the real trouble with Loki.
    Last edited by SirKeksalot; 01-30-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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  10. #10
    Junior Member Cupidhead Mayim's Avatar
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    well, most as already said here, but just one thing about the dmg reduction:
    loki is so easy to be countered, so the reason that he is "hard to hit when invisible" doesnt make sense. the cooldown on it means that once you commit, the fight end with a corpse or with the enemy flee. loki cannot run away unless he has a lot of support or if he uses his ult to get away, which totally ruin your game in many cases.

    furthermore, the "hard to hit" claim is pointless against area mages or aura dmg which some gods have or can buy, allowing you to track him. also, there are several ways to mark invisible enemies (hou yi, nu wa and even argus for some reason)

    i, for example, like to go into difficult situations without being invisible. its a high risk but it grants you the ability to actually survivr some cases you would normally lose without doing any harm to the enemy.
    it is just to important in his kit, given the playstyle, which btw can be different for many players depend on the use they have for the invisibility AND its damage reduction, which is a great thing about him.

    if his deffence is screwed so bad like that, it is only fair to give him something in return - maybe special mobility exra to give him an identity as a specialists of fast suprise ganker, but if he stays like that its gonna hurt him, and it will be painful.
    "Loki should be buffed, not nrefed! or at least not nerfed. this whole dmg reduction is the only thing that makes him survive" - wise old man once said

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