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Thread: What's the point behind the Malice change?

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    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    What's the point behind the Malice change?

    I've seen all of the second livestream and love the balance patches and design philosophy of Titan so far.

    What I don't understand however, is the upcoming Malice passive.
    From my understanding, when building crit it always has been about maximizing your damage. The current malice passives gives an alternative boost for ability hunters wanting to go crit.

    I rarely found myself buying it when playing Hou Yi and with the upcoming changes to crits I looked forward to it. But now I don't think I would buy it. 2 seconds cooldown reduction is nice, but it's on a 5 second cooldown and will just not be as strong as having 35% increased ability damage.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    The point was, that they have no clue what to do with Malice to make people want to use it.

    They kept trying to make it have bonuses to using Abilities with crits. But that kept failing because it turns out that when people focus on ability damage, they don't build useless stats like Crit that only works on basic attacks and requires significant investment to make reliable (Outside the 2 gods that have abilities that can crit)

    So now they're trying to make it something more universally usable. With less reliance on focusing on dealing damage with abilities, they're hoping that people might pick the item up on gods that have utility skills they want CDR for. I.e. You standard Basic Attack Hunter who'll be able to get CDR for their Steroid and Mobility skills.

    Which I could see people trying. Poisoned Star/Deathbringer/Malice could be a new meta crit build trying to get better uptime on their steroid and use their mobility skill more often to stay safe.

    Whether or not it's actually good, we'll see...
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Its the most interesting Malice passive in a long time. How good will it be? Hard to say before hand but I think it will find its home in some builds.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Mailce staying orientated to Ability interaction is why it keeps getting readjusted. it just hasn't gotten a good fit yet other than literally on 1-2 gods each time.

    getting a -2 CDR at least makes it a lot more flexible. i'm definitely considering it for like Rama so i have his evade up always, and i'm less against Neith and Chiron's building AA's because hey Ninja Tabi > Heartseeker > Crusher > Executioner > new Malice > Poison Star > replace boots with Titans Bane or Deathbringer + new Movement potion in conquest.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    Mailce staying orientated to Ability interaction is why it keeps getting readjusted. it just hasn't gotten a good fit yet other than literally on 1-2 gods each time.

    getting a -2 CDR at least makes it a lot more flexible. i'm definitely considering it for like Rama so i have his evade up always, and i'm less against Neith and Chiron's building AA's because hey Ninja Tabi > Heartseeker > Crusher > Executioner > new Malice > Poison Star > replace boots with Titans Bane or Deathbringer + new Movement potion in conquest.
    You forgot trans (or devos) and lack some power. Heartseeker could be replaced or just run with the one malice it will be enough to proc once every 5 sec to get nice cdr.
    Rocking the boat

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    Junior Member Cupidhead HeroicSkipper's Avatar
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    But RockerBaby its just the old crusher passive. Maybe interesting that its a crit item now, but s5 malice was probably still the most interesting for a mixed damage build. Maybe they should give up on crit and abilities mixing outside of certain assassins or just on crit in general.

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    You forgot trans (or devos) and lack some power. Heartseeker could be replaced or just run with the one malice it will be enough to proc once every 5 sec to get nice cdr.
    i'm not looking for the up front power on Neith or Chiron, i'm looking for the Heartseeker + Ult = Delete. if you're critting on an AA god, you have to balance out raw power, penetration, and attack speed in addition to critting. if anything, i'd Drop the Crusher if i felt building stacks were necessary, since Heartseeker and Executioner are still respectable penetration if you take that titans bane last. of course you have to be able to flex build on the fly. I probably still wouldn't build crit on Neith or Chiron, as they're super easy to sustain with Soul Eater and still pump out damage.
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    i'm not looking for the up front power on Neith or Chiron, i'm looking for the Heartseeker + Ult = Delete. if you're critting on an AA god, you have to balance out raw power, penetration, and attack speed in addition to critting. if anything, i'd Drop the Crusher if i felt building stacks were necessary, since Heartseeker and Executioner are still respectable penetration if you take that titans bane last. of course you have to be able to flex build on the fly. I probably still wouldn't build crit on Neith or Chiron, as they're super easy to sustain with Soul Eater and still pump out damage.
    Not building Trans with Heartseeker is a heresy unless you bloodforge/soul eater and/or several other high pwr items I think

    Your build is flexible sure but having heartseeker instead of trans I think is a misstake, sure the ult hits a bit harder then with trans (if heart passive is ready) but trans also gives 10% cdr meaning more ults and it gives rest of kit way better punch as well and your autos hitting harder. Same argument could be made for soul eater instead of heartseeker. You basicly trade a bit more dmg on ult for way less dmg on everything else and if you wanna go hard on ult dmg you can pump it way higher and still have a build that hits hard with everything else and is flexible. You build gives a neith ult about 450 extra dmg. With this: Ninja, trans, soul eater, crusher, titans, Heartseeker. You add about 600 extra dmg to ult while still having good pene, AS and power to chunk with rest of kit and autos. Soul eater, trans or heartseeker can all be replaced with other items here so it can be how flexible you want it to. Rage for 40% crit (If you want this the lifesteal will work great), exec, brawler or toxic blade (since u have high power you can afford a item with no pwr that gives a whole lot of utility) or bloodforge for even more pwr spam. Crusher cannot be replaced by anything else the brawlers I think, you wan't that flat pen, maybe for toxic and then with heart you have good flat pen, and titans/exec cover the % pen, but then you absolutely want 2 high pwr items in last slots, trans, soul eater, bloodforge and shifters can all make that work.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 01-18-2019 at 03:19 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroicSkipper View Post
    But RockerBaby its just the old crusher passive. Maybe interesting that its a crit item now, but s5 malice was probably still the most interesting for a mixed damage build. Maybe they should give up on crit and abilities mixing outside of certain assassins or just on crit in general.
    I don't remember this version of crusher. Anyway 2sec CD is like a better chronos pendant but for physical. Which is about time as I wondered why magicals is only that can reach 50% cdr. Now phys will potentially reach close to 60% cdr which will be crazy good however you gotta invest in crits which for a lot of Gods is very risky and can be counterplayed ez with thorns. So its much better (balance wise) to have it on something so greedy as a crit item then whatever this old crusher version was, however it will clearly be better on some Gods then others, Gods that like to build crit now. And it surely is more balanced then having 10% extra cdr on an item that already has 20%CDr and also has good power (yeah chronos pendant)
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 01-18-2019 at 03:37 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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