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Thread: Can someone explain why Arena cannot be a competitive Game Mode?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    honestly, i don't like draft. for idea itself. allow your enemy know what you pick? i mean, its just stupid. imagine if in real war the leaders of confront countries send eachother massages, when they told what troops and technic they send to some position and how much... incredible stupid, right? this is one of the reasons why i don't play ranked conquest( another one is a fact, that conquest is very boring, that's why i don't like casual conquest too, and i don't want to arena become the same). the most fair pick is when enemy team don't know what you pick to the moment when they see loading screen...
    A lot of strategy in forcing an opponent's hand.
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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    honestly, i don't like draft. for idea itself. allow your enemy know what you pick? the most fair pick is when enemy team don't know what you pick to the moment when they see loading screen...
    I don't understand what the difference is between an enemy team seeing your gods for the first time in the loading screen, or an enemy team seeing your gods for the first time when you pick them in draft.

    You know, other than neither team can incidentally end up in a match where the enemy has a god that completely hard counters theirs unless they don't respect the option for that to happen. (I.e. Terra into a Ganesha/Artio is just a F6 at the loading screen kind of game...)

    In addition, draft lets you remove gods you just don't want to play against.

    Like, say you're a scrub who can't deal with Hera. Well, you just ban her out and play your normal pick and not have to worry about her.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    But, they're one and the same.
    Did you read the rest of the post? Keyword "watch", there are already very good Arena players, comparable to Conquest "pros". Arena requires a different skillset from Conquest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    However, my opinion is one that is shared by the majority.
    Where is your data for this claim? The only data available is game mode popularity. In LoL, Conquest or tower defense is the most popular game mode. In Smite it's Arena. This is because LoL's Conquest is actually fun to play and watch, unlike Smite's Conquest.

    Since no data is needed for claims, according to you, I'll claim that my opinion that Conquest is a shit game mode is the opinion shared by majority in Smite. My claim is just as verified as yours is.
    Last edited by Geff; 11-25-2018 at 11:26 AM.

  4. #44
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geff View Post
    Did you read the rest of the post? Keyword "watch", there are already very good Arena players, comparable to Conquest "pros". Arena requires a different skillset from Conquest.
    Rel's post addresses what you said. How are you going to watch a "pro" Arena scene with no ranked mode? A bunch of "pros" could organize custom matches; but in that case, there's no need for a ranked mode.

    Where is your data for this claim?
    Literally every time someone suggests ranked Arena, the majority shuts them down. It's happening to you now. That's your data.
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  5. #45
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geff View Post
    Did you read the rest of the post? Keyword "watch", there are already very good Arena players, comparable to Conquest "pros". Arena requires a different skillset from Conquest.
    Have you read anything in this entire thread at any point? Or have you just been scouring the dictionary to pick out partial definitions of words?

    Yes, there are good arena players, but, much like with Conquest, you won't get a proper competitive mode without the people who fucking pay players to participate in competitive games actually knowing who the fuck to get on their teams.

    Which means you need Ranked. So that you filter out all the "Good" players and get only the best. Then the best vie in some Minor League format so you get the best of the best to actually take into Pro leagues. Thus, you get the highest level players to play and thus you make it as entertaining to watch, so that you can get the returns necessary to actually go through all of the trouble of casting games.

    Where is your data for this claim?
    Uhh...

    Do you see Ranked Arena in the game?

    No, because it was removed because it has low popularity.

    Go type into google Smite Ranked Arena and you'll find, hundreds and hundreds of Reddit threads where everyone tells you it sucked.

    The only data available is game mode popularity. In LoL, Conquest or tower defense is the most popular game mode. In Smite it's Arena. This is because LoL's Conquest is actually fun to play and watch, unlike Smite's Conquest.
    Actually, if I recall correctly, the last time the numbers were published, Assault was Smites most popular game mode. Followed by Arena then Conquest.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    A bunch of "pros" could organize custom matches; but in that case, there's no need for a ranked mode.
    Exactly, this is what I want, but let HiRez organize it and stream it alongside Conquest tournaments.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Rel's post addresses what you said. How are you going to watch a "pro" Arena scene with no ranked mode?
    I don't understand this sentence. Being a "pro" and being a "ranked player" are mutually exclusive categorizations. Not all ranked players are pros and not all pros are ranked players. There are some pros who do not play ranked at all (Xaliea is an example). And there are many good ranked players who are higher up or equal to current pros on the ladder, who are not pros.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Literally every time someone suggests ranked Arena, the majority shuts them down. It's happening to you now. That's your data.
    This is not data. This is poor sampling. This is neither random sampling nor a large sample size. Maybe it's that people who come to forums are biased. Even if I were to grant that your claim is correct (it's dubious), this is not a proper experiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Yes, there are good arena players, but, much like with Conquest, you won't get a proper competitive mode without the people who fucking pay players to participate in competitive games actually knowing who the fuck to get on their teams.

    Which means you need Ranked. So that you filter out all the "Good" players and get only the best. Then the best vie in some Minor League format so you get the best of the best to actually take into Pro leagues. Thus, you get the highest level players to play and thus you make it as entertaining to watch, so that you can get the returns necessary to actually go through all of the trouble of casting games.
    1) Addressed above, ranked player and pro player are mutually exclusive categorizations.

    2) Your claim of it cannot be done is moot because it already has been done in the past and the pool of Arena tournament players was not picked from ranked Arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Do you see Ranked Arena in the game?
    What's the point of this statement in the context of this discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Actually, if I recall correctly, the last time the numbers were published, Assault was Smites most popular game mode. Followed by Arena then Conquest.
    That data is older from the data I posted before, which is from 2018.
    Last edited by Geff; 11-25-2018 at 01:09 PM.

  7. #47
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geff View Post
    I don't understand this sentence. Being a "pro" and being a "ranked player" are mutually exclusive categorizations. Not all ranked players are pros and not all pros are ranked players. There are some pros who do not play ranked at all (Xaliea is an example). And there are many good ranked players who are higher up or equal to current pros on the ladder, who are not pros.
    In order to get into the pro scene, you must play ranked.

    Once you are established in the pro scene, you do not need to play ranked again, because people already know you're good enough to be kept on the team and picked up if you end up leaving the team. Especially since many SPL players don't drop back down to ranked, they drop back down into the minor league instead.

    What's the point of this statement in the context of this discussion?
    The point of this statement is that THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THIS GAME whom also HAVE ALL THE DATA IN REGARDS TO PLAYER NUMBERS AND VIEWER COUNTS came to the conclusions to not continue to do competitive arena AND to also removed Ranked Arena and not pursue the format they have for Conquest.

    Why? Because the numbers told them that it wasn't worth it. They could very easily have kept doing it. But they didn't. They could have re-introduced it at some point over the years. But they haven't.

    Since, they fully comprehend that people who actually enjoyed either aspect were in such a minority as to not make it worth their time.

    Anyway, again, this entire discussion is pointless:

    You asked why Arena cannot be a competitive Game Mode and the answer has been given. It wasn't popular enough.

    The end.

    No amount of you pulling out "Facts" will change the literal fact that it did happen. Then it stopped. Due to the aforementioned reasons.

    Could it theoretically happen? Yes. It very much COULD be a thing. It's not like there's a guy at Hi-Rez with a gun who tries to shoot anyone who attempts to make competitive Arena happen...

    It's just, they don't deem it worth doing based on the data they collected from back when it was done.
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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    In order to get into the pro scene, you must play ranked.

    Once you are established in the pro scene, you do not need to play ranked again, because people already know you're good enough to be kept on the team and picked up if you end up leaving the team. Especially since many SPL players don't drop back down to ranked, they drop back down into the minor league instead.
    You seem to have the misconception that Ranked has some association with streamed tournaments. As a matter of fact, it doesn't. As I've already mentioned there are many extremely good ranked players who don't professionally. And there are some non-ranked players who only practice in casual who do play professionally.

    Furthermore, there were streamed Smite tournaments even before the Ranked game mode was introduced into Smite. So, your equivalency is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    came to the conclusions to not continue to do competitive arena AND to also removed Ranked Arena and not pursue the format they have for Conquest.
    Yes, and they made the incorrect assessment, in regards to tournaments specifically. Again, you keep bringing Ranked into this discussion which has no relevance to this topic. I made the unfortunate mistake of titling the thread precisely. I assumed (as it turns out incorrectly) that my original post was clear enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    They could have re-introduced it at some point over the years. But they haven't.
    Yes, and they ought to. Again, tournaments specifically (I am compelled to repeat myself on this matter considering the past pattern of correspondences).

  9. #49
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Dude, if you're so incredibly sure that you know better than the people with all of the hard data they collected, nothing is stopping you from hosting your own tournaments.

    Like, given how massively popular the idea of Competitive Arena is, of course you'll have no problems finding people willing to help you set things up. Then you just invite all those good Arena players and stream the games and there you go. Prove Hi-Rez wrong and show them just how many people are just itching to get into Competitive Arena and to watch it streamed.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Dude, if you're so incredibly sure that you know better than the people with all of the hard data they collected, nothing is stopping you from hosting your own tournaments.

    Like, given how massively popular the idea of Competitive Arena is, of course you'll have no problems finding people willing to help you set things up. Then you just invite all those good Arena players and stream the games and there you go. Prove Hi-Rez wrong and show them just how many people are just itching to get into Competitive Arena and to watch it streamed.
    Why should I, a player with limited resources, have to do this, when HiRez, who can devote more resources and who already have infrastructure set up for this specific venture, can do it? The limited additional expenditure, especially considering already set up infrastructure, doesn't even compare to the additional marketing, and therefore additional income, that can be gained from such a venture.

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