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Thread: Can someone explain why Arena cannot be a competitive Game Mode?

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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Can someone explain why Arena cannot be a competitive Game Mode?

    Arena is one of the most fun game modes and has a bigger player base than even Conquest. I grant that there is less planning skill involved. The only planning required is considerations of safe wave clear and cooldown timings. Raw mechanical skill is a far bigger variable in Arena than in Conquest due to lower proportion of planning being a variable, but I don't see how this dissuades the game mode from being competitively viable.

    The few Arena tournaments that took place in the past (like Alienware Arena Cup) were very enjoyable to watch, so it's certainly viable from the perspective of spectator enjoyability.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    It cannot be a competitive game mode because it eventually becomes super boring to play when everyone figures out that the highest chance to win is to turtle for 99% of the game and then win 1 teamfight to get the last few tickets.

    With literally nothing in the map to encourage people to not just sit in the advantageous defensive position and just kill minions for tickets.

    It's a topic that comes up time and time again, but always the thing is that without changing something about Arena, it just devolves into the aforementioned turtlefest and becomes boring.
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    Senior Member Chosen Spartan219's Avatar
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    it's always just a bit of time goes by and someone make a post about arena ranked mode and then sometime goes by someone else post it again
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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan219 View Post
    it's always just a bit of time goes by and someone make a post about arena ranked mode and then sometime goes by someone else post it again
    I wonder if this one will turn into a similar shitstorm to the last one?

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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    It cannot be a competitive game mode because it eventually becomes super boring to play when everyone figures out that the highest chance to win is to turtle for 99% of the game and then win 1 teamfight to get the last few tickets.

    With literally nothing in the map to encourage people to not just sit in the advantageous defensive position and just kill minions for tickets.

    It's a topic that comes up time and time again, but always the thing is that without changing something about Arena, it just devolves into the aforementioned turtlefest and becomes boring.
    Your view is objectively incorrect. It's sad that a lot of BAD arena players seem to suffer from the misconception that turtling is a good idea. It clearly is not, and as a matter of fact there IS incentive to not turtle. I'll explain:

    If you turtle infront of base, the enemy team will have minion advantage and will come towards your base with 2 minion waves. Now you are in a position where you are facing 2 minion waves + 5 players. This is a huge disadvantage for the turtling team to because they have to split focus between the 5 players and the 2 minion waves trying to get into the portal. Good teams will take advantage of this dynamic and force a fight when the enemy team has a minion disadvantage.

    Furthermore, what is boring and what is un-boring is subjective. Clearly not everyone shares your point of view that Arena is boring otherwise it wouldn't be such a huge playerbase. I happen to find Conquest boring, so your point of view is not the only point of view existing in the universe.
    Last edited by Geff; 11-19-2018 at 02:44 PM.

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    Because the best way to play the mode is to get a small lead, and then camp and play passive until the enemy team drops to 10 tickets. There isn't anything that encourages a team who's ahead to ever be aggressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geff View Post
    If you turtle infront of base, the enemy team will have minion advantage and will come towards your base with 2 minion waves. Now you are in a position where you are facing 2 minion waves + 5 players. This is a huge disadvantage for the turtling team to because they have to split focus between the 5 players and the 2 minion waves trying to get into the portal. Good teams will take advantage of this dynamic and force a fight when the enemy team has a minion disadvantage.
    I pick ranged burst mage A B C D E F G I J K L M N O P, etc, minion waves are not a problem.
    Last edited by Goobis; 11-19-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    Because the best way to play the mode is to get a small lead, and then camp and play passive until the enemy team drops to 10 tickets. There isn't anything that encourages a team who's ahead to ever be aggressive.
    I honestly don't think you play Arena with outrageous claims like this. It shows an utter disregard for how minion pressure works. The best scenario for any team is for the enemy team to be pushed to their base and for the enemy team to be facing 2 minion waves and 5 of your team members at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    I pick ranged burst mage A B C D E F G I J K L M N O P, etc, minion waves are not a problem.
    If you are pushed to your base and there is 5 players + 2 minion waves, you have to waste your cooldown on the minions. You now have no cooldown and you have 5 players, not to mention, the 5 players won't sit idly by and watch you, they have the advantage here.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geff View Post
    Your view is objectively incorrect. It's sad that a lot of BAD arena players seem to suffer from the misconception that turtling is a good idea. It clearly is not, and as a matter of fact there IS incentive to not turtle. I'll explain:
    Turtling is objectively the correct way to get a win.

    There are so many different gods that can instantly clear minion waves. Doing so where you get last hits takes tickets from your opponent.

    When your opponent runs out of tickets, they lose.

    If your opponent doesn't take care of your minion waves, they go into the portal and they lose tickets. Thus, they are now forced to deal with the minion waves.

    If they try and attack you, then you can either retreat into fountain, or turn and focus fire on the priority targets, because guess what, you're positioned so that your frontline just has to focus on peel (While the aggressors frontline has to simultaneously initiate and peel)

    As such, it becomes a meta where both teams just take the most advantageous position, which is a defensive one where they wait for the enemy team to engage and retaliate.

    Thus, it comes down to getting an advantage, be it by trying to use long ranged AoE (Such as KKK's storm or a Scylla Crush) to mess with initial last hitting of minions, or some other tactic to try and cause an inequality in tickets. So that when it comes down to the last few, the other team if forced to be the aggressors and thus is at a disadvantage.

    There is nothing worth moving out into the map for. Buffs are worthless. Juggernauts (Now Minotaurs) only spawn after 10 kills. Initiation is objectively worse than defending.

    Furthermore, what is boring and what is un-boring is subjective. Clearly not everyone shares your point of view that Arena is boring otherwise it wouldn't be such a huge playerbase. I happen to find Conquest boring, so your point of view is not the only point of view existing in the universe.
    Ranked Arena was boring. We had it. It was removed because no-one liked it because it was a turtlefest.

    This is not opinion. This is fact.

    I like arena, it's one of (If not actually) my most played modes. But that's because in casual, you just teamfight constantly, which is fun. Objectively, it's not the best way to win, but it's casual, so you don't really care that much about winning.
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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    You might have a different definition of "turtling". If your view of turtling is standing in front of portal and waiting for the enemy team to come with two minion waves. Then you are wrong. If your view of turtling is killing minion waves in the center at the same pace as the enemy team then that's a bizzare view of turtling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    If your opponent doesn't take care of your minion waves, they go into the portal and they lose tickets. Thus, they are now forced to deal with the minion waves.
    You seem to be aware of this dynamic and yet you cannot comprehend minion pressure. If the enemy has minion advantage, if they are intelligent they will push the advantage. They know you are forced to kill the minions, the moment you are spending hitting the minions is a moment you cannot be focused on a team fight. The cooldown you use on minions is a cooldown that won't be available to you in a teamfight. If you back to base, the minions will go into your portal.

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    Senior Member Honoured Geff's Avatar
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    I should have clarified this. When I say "competitive game mode" I don't mean add a ranked version. I mean make more Arena tournaments like the ones that were done in the past. There is a gigantic audience for it.

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