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Thread: King Arthur and Merlin as next gods?

  1. #71
    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    While I agree that arthurian legend does not really fit into a game that is about gods that actually have been worshiped over the course of history, I do like the theme enough to overlook it. While I am not an expert about these topicsl, I am fairly sure that the same to an extend is true about Sun Wukong. Wasn't journey to the west just a tale and only that? If so, we basically have the same thing happening again. SWK and by extension, Erlang Shen wouldn't be actual gods but just figures from a prominent tale, with Arthur and Merlin following suit.
    Journey to the West is essentially SWK's second story, his first story is his wreaking havoc on the Heavens and attaining immortality. Journey to the West is his punishment/redemption arc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    Guan Yu did get woreshiped after he was deified, so technically, he qualifies. Then again, woreshipping isn't really a factor either considering how many gods in the game are not actually gods but just monsters or part of some kind of godly story. Medusa was a woman made monster, Cerberus is just a monster and Guan Yu is a man who died and became famous enough to be woreshipped
    Guan Yu sets a precedent that opens the door to any deified human, first coming to mind are Pharohs and Caesars.

    Medusa being human first is just one version of the Medusa myth, there's also the version in which she has two sisters (Sthenno and Euryale) who are considered immortal beasts.



    in regards to Merlin, i'm thinking one Stance is going to be AA self stims, one will be big AOE, and the last will be supportive. either that, or he'll be like Belona and his stances will just change his autos/ult.
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  2. #72
    Senior Member Prestigious GongsunYiru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaRodin View Post
    While I agree that arthurian legend does not really fit into a game that is about gods that actually have been worshiped over the course of history, I do like the theme enough to overlook it. While I am not an expert about these topicsl, I am fairly sure that the same to an extend is true about Sun Wukong. Wasn't journey to the west just a tale and only that? If so, we basically have the same thing happening again. SWK and by extension, Erlang Shen wouldn't be actual gods but just figures from a prominent tale, with Arthur and Merlin following suit.
    Your statement is not correct.

    Sun Wukong had a long development throughout history. It goes as far back as the "White Monkey" legends of the Chu kingdom (700–223 BC) where there was worship of gibbons, then "Yang Youji shooting a white ape" legend developed in the Han dynasty (206 BC – 220) (which is possibly modeled after the "Houyi shooting the suns" myth), then that legend served as the prototype for the infamous battle with Erlang Shen as it appeared in the Song dynasty (960–1279), then Buddhist influence came where an enlightenment story came (Wukong means "Who Is Enlightened about Emptiness").

    The first written documentation connecting Xuanzang and a monkey-disciple is also from the Song dynasty (960–1279). This is the Kozanji version (named so after the temple that owns the the copy) of Journey to the West (an older version of the story from the 13th century), which contain two similar tales: Datang Xuanzang qujing shihua (The Poetical Tale of the Procurement of Scriptures by Tripitaka of the Great Tang) and Datang Xuanzang fashi qujingji (The Record of the Procurement of Scriptures by Tripitaka of the Great Tang).

    Then there's a Monkey King legend (where the Monkey King was cruelly encased in clay) from Fujian during the late Tang dynasty (618–907). But I can keep going on and on...

    The point is, Sun Wukong is mythological in origin. It is an amalgamation of a vast body of mythological legends.

    The statement that Sun Wukong is just from a tale is incorrect. It is merely the most known one due to popular culture.

    Reference: Hera S. Walker (1998). Indigenous or Foreign?: A Look at the Origins of the Monkey Hero Sun Wukong. Sino-Platonic Papers 81.

  3. #73
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    He's pretty much DotA's Invoker with 1 less ability from what it seems; and DotA's heroes don't have passives, so Merlin's passive will ultimately count.
    Some Dota 2 Heroes do have passives.

    Invoker being the one with the most, since the way he selects his spells to use is by manipulating his 3 passive skills. One that gives HP regen, one that gives MS and AS and one that gives auto attack damage.

    Thus, technically, Invoker has 14 skills (Including his skill to select his spells)...

    But yeah, this is as close to Invoker we're gonna get, considering Smite has to be console friendly and that's something that Invoker most certainly is not when you have to manipulate 6 buttons just on his skills alone (Let alone Dota also having active items so you can run around with 6-9 additional buttons to press depending on your build path and if you can be bothered to swap stuff between your backpack and inventory...)

    Anyway...

    On the topic of the whole gods vs Arthurian lore...

    I guess on the one hand, this is Battleground of the GODS where up until now, every single character has been either a diety or a notable figure from a religion. While King Arthur and Merlin are not from any religion (They may take inspiration from religions but they themselves are not part of any religious lore) and as such are a shift from one of the key aspects of Smites identity, that being the characters being based on real world religions.

    On the other hand, the presence of Arthur and Merlin doesn't necessarily open up the floodgates to anything and everything in of itself. Since, they are a pretty prominent and widely known part of folklore. So, as long as TFG sticks to only adding in non-religious figures from very notable folklore then it could feasibly pass without too much incident.

    Thus, no made up religions (Such as Cthulu and the Old Gods... As skins = YES as gods = NO) and no entities from minor folklore (You know, things like the Chubacabra). That should suffice, so long as they keep the folklore entities to a minimum and focus more on the actual deities, especially since there's tons of untapped potential from across the globe (I.e. Not Europe...)

    That said, I do question the choice of King Arthur... Like, what's so special about him? His only notable thing was pulling a fancy sword out of a rock (Or being given it by some tart in a pond depending on the version) and after that... He was king for a bit. I can't even remember if he actually participated in a war at all in any of his stories?

    At least Merlin is somewhat interesting what with being a wizard in many depictions...
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    Member Worshipper Razrtongue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    I disagree, by making a Precedent with Hero Myth in addition to God Myth, the door was just blown wide open for adding some big names to the game.

    Lu Bu Fengxian anyone? or how about Miyamoto Musashi. Beowulf is also now fair game. Or maybe get my Girl Atalanta in on this.
    The whole "non-god" as playables was already a thing with Guan Yu, so that's not new. But I'm glad that there's someone who isn't objecting to Arthur & Merlin.
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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    On the topic of the whole gods vs Arthurian lore...

    I guess on the one hand, this is Battleground of the GODS where up until now, every single character has been either a diety or a notable figure from a religion. While King Arthur and Merlin are not from any religion (They may take inspiration from religions but they themselves are not part of any religious lore) and as such are a shift from one of the key aspects of Smites identity, that being the characters being based on real world religions.

    On the other hand, the presence of Arthur and Merlin doesn't necessarily open up the floodgates to anything and everything in of itself. Since, they are a pretty prominent and widely known part of folklore. So, as long as TFG sticks to only adding in non-religious figures from very notable folklore then it could feasibly pass without too much incident.

    Thus, no made up religions (Such as Cthulu and the Old Gods... As skins = YES as gods = NO) and no entities from minor folklore (You know, things like the Chubacabra). That should suffice, so long as they keep the folklore entities to a minimum and focus more on the actual deities, especially since there's tons of untapped potential from across the globe (I.e. Not Europe...)

    That said, I do question the choice of King Arthur... Like, what's so special about him? His only notable thing was pulling a fancy sword out of a rock (Or being given it by some tart in a pond depending on the version) and after that... He was king for a bit. I can't even remember if he actually participated in a war at all in any of his stories?

    At least Merlin is somewhat interesting what with being a wizard in many depictions...
    There's a lot more to the Knights of the Round and Arthur than pulling a fancy sword, they're a cornerstone for the concepts of democracy and chivalry. Arthur is one of the few for the people kings in history and myth, he was the ideal ruler.

    as for the conflicts of Arthur:
    http://www.britannia.com/history/arthur/kabattles.html

    Also i know several people who'd string you up for calling the Lady of the Lake a tart
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
    Ares killed Poseidon's son for rape and was aquited for murder
    Ares is both the Father AND Grandfather of the Amazons. Feel free to "EWWW"
    Ares turned a guard that failed to anounce Helios into a rooster
    Ares supported Trojans. Ares has a ton of kids

  6. #76
    Senior Member Honoured Diamondrainn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkwolf View Post
    This should open the door for some more modern heroes such as chuck norris and rambo.
    Next will be Disney Gods: Mulan, Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, and Aladdin. LOL oh yeah Disney did do Arthur and Merlin too. Arggg.

    Yes the doors will open to more stupid and not creative characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexNemesis View Post
    Oh, I heard Merlin has 3 stances and 9 skills to cast. ROFL? That is the only thing that can do to make a interesting god? How fucking lame of them.
    Are you fucking kidding me? That's stupid giving one character so much variety. Yup, this is now starting to put a bad taste in my mouth. They must have been too late with creativity so they used Arthur and Merlin template to make it easier for them to push out a character.
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    Senior Member Chosen Slaycrol's Avatar
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    Why do people hate on them
    SMITE needs hype stuff that is awkward but works

    the game sucks already in terms of basic-ass design
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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razrtongue View Post
    The whole "non-god" as playables was already a thing with Guan Yu, so that's not new. But I'm glad that there's someone who isn't objecting to Arthur & Merlin.
    Guan Yu was deified after death, go into any chinese establishment and you'll see an idol of him somewhere, he's a god of profit and prosperity in addition to war. Also note what hand he's holding his weapon, as if it's in his left hand instead of his right generally signifies you're in a triad owned business and you should mind yourself.
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
    Ares killed Poseidon's son for rape and was aquited for murder
    Ares is both the Father AND Grandfather of the Amazons. Feel free to "EWWW"
    Ares turned a guard that failed to anounce Helios into a rooster
    Ares supported Trojans. Ares has a ton of kids

  9. #79
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaycrol View Post
    Why do people hate on them
    I already explained why at length.

    SMITE needs hype stuff that is awkward but works
    The only "awkward" thing about mythology is how bizarre it all is. Arthurian myth is too out of line with the rest of the game's subject matter. Everything else works because it all comes from a tradition with a certain kind of cultural weight the Matter of Britain just doesn't have.

    the game sucks already in terms of basic-ass design
    There's no need to make it worse.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    I don't know how you can complain about this, they are really cool characters.

    Everything else works because it all comes from a tradition with a certain kind of cultural weight the Matter of Britain just doesn't have.
    Merlin is a druid. How can you have a Celtic pantheon and not have some sort of mythic druid in it?
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 11-18-2018 at 11:34 PM.
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