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Thread: lets talk Apollo

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    lets talk Apollo

    Other than his global presence, he's fairly weak these days and the argument he's the weakest Hunter in the game has been solid for the last 2 seasons.

    I'd like to bounce a couple ideas off of people about him.

    First:
    *Move his Mesmerize from his 2 to the end of his Stage Dive.
    *Make his current passive a stim skill to replace his 2, give it a 14 second cooldown til we can adjust
    *New Passive: After he lands from his ult, he gains a damage buff depending on on how long he was in the air, Scaling up to 10%/12.5%/15%/17.5%/20% (figure it'd take the time to fly from Solo to Duo lane to get the max amount) for his next 3/3/4/4/5 basics

    Second:
    * A soft CC immunity during Stage Dive (immune to Root/Slow/knockback/Stun)
    * Treat his 1 like a basic in terms of Crit.
    * Swap out the knock up on his ult landing for a slow on the shots as he drops.

    Third:
    * Give him 2 shots on his 1 (like Pele) with separate cooldowns
    * apply a protection debuff with his Mesmerize.
    * Make his passive persist until out of combat (like Guan Yu), while increasing the number of basics required to set it off, allowing more than just 5 faster shots.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    Other than his global presence, he's fairly weak these days and the argument he's the weakest Hunter in the game has been solid for the last 2 seasons.
    Yeah, Apollo's been kind of mediocre for a while... Now he's just completely outclassed by Chernobog who can rotate faster than him, do more damage than him and doesn't gimp his mana in order to actually use his global mobility...

    First:
    *Move his Mesmerize from his 2 to the end of his Stage Dive.
    *Make his current passive a stim skill to replace his 2, give it a 14 second cooldown til we can adjust
    *New Passive: After he lands from his ult, he gains a damage buff depending on on how long he was in the air, Scaling up to 10%/12.5%/15%/17.5%/20% (figure it'd take the time to fly from Solo to Duo lane to get the max amount) for his next 3/3/4/4/5 basics
    Moving the Mesmerize to his stage dive would limit his self peel though. Serenade is super good for shutting down a myriad of Assassins/Warriors who try and engage on him with skills that can be countered by this CC without having to burn his mobility...

    Improving the consistency of his steroid is nice, it's one of the major things I think he needs. I'm just not sure it's worth taking out Serenade for.

    Passive that relies on using your ult = no bueno. It's a similar thing to why Hera had her passive given additional utility because people didn't like that it was useless until level 5. Even more so, this passive is useless for 110 seconds between each ult (Compared to Hera's 70s CD and passive reducing that)
    Second:
    * A soft CC immunity during Stage Dive (immune to Root/Slow/knockback/Stun)
    * Treat his 1 like a basic in terms of Crit.
    * Swap out the knock up on his ult landing for a slow on the shots as he drops.
    CC immunity on Stage Dive could be nice. Though, I'm not 100% sure if it's what he needs (I'm not that sure how often he gets rooted/knocked back/stunned while diving)

    I'd rather not have yet more crazy abilities critting for obscene damage. Especially not one that hits in an area for as hard as So Beautiful (320 + 80% damage is crazy. With ~300 power you're talking a Deathbringer crit for 1200+ damage before protections!)

    Knockup on his ult is better than slow though. Lets him CC chain.

    Third:
    * Give him 2 shots on his 1 (like Pele) with separate cooldowns
    * apply a protection debuff with his Mesmerize.
    * Make his passive persist until out of combat (like Guan Yu), while increasing the number of basics required to set it off, allowing more than just 5 faster shots.
    So Beautiful is too strong to gain a charge like effect. I mean, in comparison Pele's Pyroclasm is kind of weak to compensate for the potential to double shoot it. 640 + 180% damage would be insane burst for him. Not to mention, it would diminish some of Pele's uniqueness.

    Prot debuff with Serenade could be useful. Could also make it affect Mag prots too instead of being just phys.

    Passive lasting until out of combat could be neat, a way to increase its reliability. Though, it would need to be toned down in order to justify a longer uptime, since perma-100% attack speed would be pretty nutty. In addition, copying Guan Yu's passive buff probably also isn't the right way to go about it...
    Perhaps something like making it so that hitting with basic attacks/The Moves refreshes stacks? So as long as you're consistently hitting targets you can maintain the buff. But if you miss 5 basics in a row (Maybe tweak the number to be a bit lower) you lose it?
    Then it's a matter of just tuning the numbers so the attack speed isn't so crazy OP. Like maybe 75% or something.

    Finally, a little extra to add myself, is something that players have been asking for AGES: Reduced mana cost on Across the Sky. Since, especially now that global rotation prowess is no longer his niche, what with Chern going across the map in a couple of seconds, increasing the usability of Across the Sky so you can land somewhere with more than 0 mana (As well as not having Trans being a near requirement to use the skill in the first place) would benefit him a great deal.
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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    My adjustment suggestions to the 1, crit hitting or 2 charges, can be viable if we turned downed the base and scaling, maybe down to 250 +60% (spitballing).
    Pele's charges already aren't unique, Agni did it first. perhaps give it extra cooldown when you land basics.

    I think settling on a protection shred for Mesmerize should be acceptable, but that still prevents us from moving his stim to a skill button. perhaps make it a two factor skill? hit once to mesmerize hit again to dash within a time limit like Achilles 8 way step stab.

    I still think a weak slow should be on the ult, the knock up only happens on the landing so it's not hard to get out of the strike zone unless you're like, Anubis or something. if not a slow at least a cripple on the shots to at least confirm the landing by stopping dash/jumps/dodges.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    My adjustment suggestions to the 1, crit hitting or 2 charges, can be viable if we turned downed the base and scaling, maybe down to 250 +60% (spitballing).
    Pele's charges already aren't unique, Agni did it first. perhaps give it extra cooldown when you land basics.
    It still feels a little unnecessary. It's not like So Beautiful is weak as is, it's a pretty hard hitting skill and since it got the nerf it had ages ago (Where it did less damage to each target hit) removed so it could clear waves again it's in a decent spot.


    I think settling on a protection shred for Mesmerize should be acceptable, but that still prevents us from moving his stim to a skill button. perhaps make it a two factor skill? hit once to mesmerize hit again to dash within a time limit like Achilles 8 way step stab.
    But then you're still putting his defensive tools onto a single skill. For reasons that aren't necessarily needed. Like, his passive can still be his steroid, if you just make the passive be more consistently active, such as with the ideas we've both shared in regards to its uptime.

    Allowing him to then be able to use both his skills both offensively and defensively independently of one another (So he can dash in aggressively, then Mez defensively to get out or vice versa, or he can use both aggressively or both defensively) keeping his options open. Since, versatility is the general idea with regards to them, hence their bloated nature of giving buffs/debuffs/CC.

    I still think a weak slow should be on the ult, the knock up only happens on the landing so it's not hard to get out of the strike zone unless you're like, Anubis or something. if not a slow at least a cripple on the shots to at least confirm the landing by stopping dash/jumps/dodges.
    Well, the thing is, the ult knock up is really easy to confirm when you're dropping on a target that's already engaged with a teammate. Which is the only real time when you should be dropping down on someone because popping your ult to try and find a solo target to 1v1 is not a particularly good idea (Especially since that means irregardless of the CC applied, the target can just beads and GTFO)

    Usually the thing that makes it difficult is how much time you have to actually look for an ideal opening to drop, given your rapidly draining mana pool.
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    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    I tried Apollo once after seeing Baskin use him.

    Never again.

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    i dont see the problem here

    appollo is cool , not the best cause new generation gods are ... here now , but he is playable :
    _has a dash
    _has a stun (short range but nvm)
    _skill#1 is fast and stealthy
    _ult is cool

    after ..eeh .. he is a hunter like any other , i've read ALL your comments , you talk about him and compare him with cherno like if they were mages only using abilities and ... i guess your problem is here = defaults are bad exploited qualities .

    and if you prefer an other god , just play with it _ as simple as that.

    if you want appollo to be the best hunter = ask santa
    if you want appollo to be the best hunter = make a time machine and come back in 1947 and fix the future for all those trolls not happy to play a game instead of working to feed their families

  7. #7
    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRONTdeQUICHE View Post
    after ..eeh .. he is a hunter like any other , i've read ALL your comments , you talk about him and compare him with cherno like if they were mages only using abilities and ... i guess your problem is here = defaults are bad exploited qualities .
    you haven't apparently noticed we're also talking about improving his AA stim on his passive. Apollo suffers because he can't trade as well as other hunters once he's blown his kit, and his ult is so mana hungry you have to build Transcendence no matter what, if you build lifesteal instead first item his ult becomes a non factor because you'll be landing with no MP.
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
    Ares killed Poseidon's son for rape and was aquited for murder
    Ares is both the Father AND Grandfather of the Amazons. Feel free to "EWWW"
    Ares turned a guard that failed to anounce Helios into a rooster
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    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    you haven't apparently noticed we're also talking about improving his AA stim on his passive. Apollo suffers because he can't trade as well as other hunters once he's blown his kit, and his ult is so mana hungry you have to build Transcendence no matter what, if you build lifesteal instead first item his ult becomes a non factor because you'll be landing with no MP.
    mmmmh' i take note but ... as am an assaut player you know i dont use transcendence ,) and OH i can use my ult anyway and place a combo once landed , just because i dont use my ult as a bus to reach my enemies ,)

    the build is simple ; lifeforge , some boots , and then full crit , i dont really need mana , it is a hunter not a mage i just need some for the dash in case of emergency , all other skills are bonus , skill#1 makes the same dmg as basic attack , skill=time to reload but basic attack = 2 per sec , so skill#1 is just for fun or consider it like a boost for damages.

    appollo [can] own[z] on early game , dash_stun_boom=shield from forge , and VOILAAAH !!!

    if you can do it in assault , dive with ult and escape without dying , you can do it in conquest without problems _ try it love it _ assault is 1v5 so dont tell me you have problems to do it 1v1 or 1v2 in conquest.

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    Trash Doggo Demigod Goobis's Avatar
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    Ignore the troll.
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    I'm cheating on Anubis, Camazotz is in the dumpster now.

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    Member Follower Chiagirl's Avatar
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    I've played a fair bit of Apollo recently (mostly in joust, I got my first godlike with him actually) and while I'm probably below average in terms of the player skillbase I don't think he's bad, just kind of underwhelming. There are hunters that I find worse than him, though I'm not sure if that holds true at higher levels of play. That said Apollo does need some buffs though and I have liked a few of the suggestions already listed, namely:


    Apply a protection debuff with his Mesmerize and also give himself magical protections in addition to physical

    A soft CC immunity during Stage Dive (immune to Root/Slow/knockback/Stun)

    Reduced mana cost on Across the Sky


    I think all of those would be nice quality of life tweaks that would help him feel a bit less outdated, though I still don't think that it would be enough to bump him up with the other top hunters. Maybe also keep the mana cost of "So beautiful" to a permanent 70 mana instead of scaling up to 90 which would help with leaving him with enough mana early game so he isn't as drained after his abilities (namely his ult), and keep the cooldown of "Serenade" at 13 seconds instead of starting at 17 to allow him to use it more often so he could be more impactful. Also on release his ult's cooldown scaled down to 90 seconds at the highest rank, which I think would be nice to bring back to give him a bit of a niche edge against other global gods to make up for the huge amount of mana his ult consumes. If all of the above were done I think that he could be considered a good pick again.
    Last edited by Chiagirl; 11-11-2018 at 02:13 AM.
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