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Thread: Aphrodite way too weak.

  1. #11
    Member Worshipper SquireAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Though, to be honest, those 2 roles are already where she shines in the competitive scene.

    Or at least shone, until changes were made that pushed her out after briefly being S+ tier (Changes such as the nerf to Soul Reaver so she couldn't burst as hard and the buffs to Ah Puch to make him not a complete joke to run in Conq and he completely dumpsters Aphro in lane because every time she tries to clear the wave, she uses her birbs = free stun and nuke from Ah Puch's 3)

    Meanwhile, you'd be making her even more annoying to deal with in casual games, since, with her heal being only healing, you get a ton of anti-heal and then she's only got her items and passive to boost her up. With her heal giving prots instead of raw healing, she'd have those on top. I mean, her passive is basically a free Zhong Kui passive as is and we all know how annoying it can be to take him out... Giving her MORE prots would be really obnoxious.
    That's kinda the problem tho, she either excels, which effects most of the healing meta as a whole, or she gets dumpsyered by her counters. There'd be some adjustment post alteration, but I feel that it would mean that she wouldn't basically be "unplayable" when antiheal is so strong. Because she has the defensive ult, shes just never going to be a nuke mage, unless you have a team comp to allow her to back up that playstyle, which would work better with any actual burst mage.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Chosen KAKLAW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Because then it's not affected by penetration and that's not what she needs.
    But her current passive doesn't either and it's not like she builds a lot of defense really barring like BoV. damage mitigation helps building hp power items on her better and come out of exchanges better.

  3. #13
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireAngel View Post
    That's kinda the problem tho, she either excels, which effects most of the healing meta as a whole, or she gets dumpsyered by her counters. There'd be some adjustment post alteration, but I feel that it would mean that she wouldn't basically be "unplayable" when antiheal is so strong.
    But that's the issue. Any attempt to make her tankier, which is what giving her more protections from her birbs, will just emphasise her game changing nature.

    Like, already, she completely changes how a game is played because you NEED to deal with her because she offers so much sustain and defence to her team, meaning you need to get anti-heal and you need to try and focus her out otherwise she'll just keep sustaining her team with ults and heals (Even through anti-heal. Especially if a team can back out of a fight and wait for anti-heal to wear off and then re-engage after healing back up)

    Making her harder to kill, even at the cost of raw healing throughput, will just make there be less counterplay to her by making it harder to focus her down.

    Because she has the defensive ult, shes just never going to be a nuke mage, unless you have a team comp to allow her to back up that playstyle, which would work better with any actual burst mage.
    I disagree.

    With changes I've outlined in the thread I linked earlier, I feel she COULD be a viable nuke mage, able to be run in mid and build for raw power and deal a lot of damage in fights, with her bonus over other burst mages being the utility she'd provide to the team instead of a massive AoE damage ult (Free beads + Aegis for someone is always going to be amazing and soulmate bonus could theoretically be really good too)

    I mean, we already see The Morrigan get used as a nuke mage, even if her ult is often used to get utility (Such as Terra/Athena ults/kits). Agni is also quite popular and he doesn't have a big one shot ult either.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAKLAW View Post
    But her current passive doesn't either and it's not like she builds a lot of defense really barring like BoV. damage mitigation helps building hp power items on her better and come out of exchanges better.
    Actually, current meta for Aphro is to build a bunch of defence.

    Typically, the only non-defensive items she gets are like Asclepius and maybe a Chronos' Pendant.

    Since she's generally run in the solo lane and kind of just wants to survive while she spams out heals and ults.

    Also, again, inherent tankiness is something that is not something that Aphro should get more of. As it reduces counterplay to her when she's already a massively impactful god. Even more so, giving her mitigation instead of protections meaning that there is even LESS counterplay because mitigation is not affected by penetration while protections are.
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Aphro definitely needs a new passive, i think most of us can agree. as far as her stat lines go i can only see bumping up her base health and hp scaling, anything else will cause a balance issue again.
    Ah Puch does really wrench her wave clear, and i can't think of any solution to that other than bumping him out of meta viability again, other than forcing her to be soulmates with someone to heal herself too and the birds not healing when unlinked.
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    Her Passive is more like a Support but whenever I see her, it is in Solo lane except once so far. I have heard of Supports who use or consider her but not at high level play because others are so much better.
    It is odd her Passive needs a group while she can only link to one player, sure it is good in teamfights but not even in Duo.
    Amazing how Paragon had their linkable character be so much better than Aphro and was a starter Hero too.

  6. #16
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    aphro is/was my very first rankX _ for me she is the easiest god of the game _ i just equiped her with cdr~mps , take note some cdr items have also CCr and res and mitigation .

    _my first step with aphro was to understand she needed mass and early cdr/mps
    _then , the day i tryed 'spirit's robe ' my life changed for good and aphro became so easy to play

    to play ? define it :
    _like anyother i initially played aphro as a suxxpport , but ... it is both frustatring and not effective
    _then i played more agressive once i found how to build her properly , and WOOOHOOWH they changed the passive to exactly what i needed
    ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
    result [take note i am the only one giving a solution , all previous post are just butthurt posts just to say +1]
    _she needs chrono's pendant the earliest possible
    _she needs spirit's robe , i tryed others which are better on paper but ... life is not on paper
    _play her agressive , 1+3 combo is nasty they will hate you (1v1 dont make me laugh)

    my default build [for assault]
    _chrono'spendant _ mage blessing as starter item if you like
    _traveller shoes
    _spirit's robe
    _rod of tahuti
    _obsidian shard
    _pythagorem's piece


    my opinion is : aphro is very good and you are very bad
    Last edited by FRONTdeQUICHE; 11-12-2018 at 08:28 AM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Chosen KAKLAW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    Her Passive is more like a Support but whenever I see her, it is in Solo lane except once so far. I have heard of Supports who use or consider her but not at high level play because others are so much better.
    It is odd her Passive needs a group while she can only link to one player, sure it is good in teamfights but not even in Duo.
    Amazing how Paragon had their linkable character be so much better than Aphro and was a starter Hero too.
    ~36 protections max is nice in the early game but in conquest the only time that can really plaly is in the late game and it isn't even a stable 36. Your Achilles gets a penta kill in Arena you just lost 20 protections and this is in Arena where contact with enemy team is always a thing. If she could give it to allies while linked that would help maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by VlentisFlyheightis View Post
    Ah Puch does really wrench her wave clear, and i can't think of any solution to that other than bumping him out of meta viability again, other than forcing her to be soulmates with someone to heal herself too and the birds not healing when unlinked.
    most gods can mess her up hard in solo unfortunely unless she's up against gods that are not really good in solo OR drop off hard in game imapct (poor SWK and Chaac).

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post

    I mean, we already see The Morrigan get used as a nuke mage, even if her ult is often used to get utility (Such as Terra/Athena ults/kits). Agni is also quite popular and he doesn't have a big one shot ult either.

    .
    The Morrigan nukes with her 1>2 or 2>2 and insta clears fast on top of having low mana usage rates. Agni hurts a ton with damage+pen items and can do it from a very safe range and can trigger procs on all his skills and on top of that he an extremely vary his clear in many clever ways and with his 1 being an extremely mana cheap way to tag. Both gods have a very good poke game and ways to start a fight.
    Last edited by KAKLAW; 11-11-2018 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #18
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAKLAW View Post
    ~36 protections max is nice in the early game but in conquest the only time that can really plaly is in the late game and it isn't even a stable 36.
    36 free prots is still 36 free prots.

    That's basically a free T2 robe item. Worth ~1500g.

    For free.

    By doing nothing except existing in a teamfight (Since it's 70 unit radius meaning longer range than basic attacks which are 55 units)

    Your Achilles gets a penta kill in Arena you just lost 20 protections and this is in Arena where contact with enemy team is always a thing.
    If your Achilles just got a penta kill, why do you need protections? Who's gonna be hitting you?
    most gods can mess her up hard in solo unfortunely unless she's up against gods that are not really good in solo OR drop off hard in game imapct (poor SWK and Chaac).
    Not really. I mean, once she gets some MP5 online (I.e. BoV) she only needs to leave the lane for buying items. Since she'll have health sustain for days, she clears waves well and from a distance.

    Meaning, that it's hard for her to really get bullied. It's really just Ah Puch that destroys her because she HAS to take the bonus damage + stun from his Fleeting Breath due to her wave clear also puts a HoT onto her.

    Otherwise, she's not that punishable. She doesn't get rekt by CC because birbs aren't channelled (Like Cerb breath/Nike Rend/Guan assault etc). She can't really be super pressured like Guardians because she has actually decent wave clear fairly early on. She's not particularly easy to gank either, given her heal and free Beads/Aegis ult.

    The Morrigan nukes with her 1>2 or 2>2 and insta clears fast on top of having low mana usage rates. Agni hurts a ton with damage+pen items and can do it from a very safe range and can trigger procs on all his skills and on top of that he an extremely vary his clear in many clever ways and with his 1 being an extremely mana cheap way to tag. Both gods have a very good poke game and ways to start a fight.
    Yes.

    But, that doesn't stop the fact that with a few tweaks, Aphro could be a viable nuke mage and the lack of a big AoE damage ult is not indicative of being unable to fulfil the role of a nuke mage. Which is why I mentioned those 2 gods, as they're mages that see successful play and do not have such an ultimate (All the time, The Morrigan CAN turn into the enemy teams Mage and drop one)

    As mentioned in the thread I linked in my first reply here, if her "Healbot" nature was tuned down, it would open up some power to be spread to other parts of her kit. Such as speeding up her birbs so the damage is more confirmable and potentially some boosts to her Soul Link allowing her to get better use out of its utility.

    Tweaks such as that, would give her good poke because she'd be able to more easily land birbs at a range, with more reliable birbs her damage would jump up dramatically (Since her damage numbers are very good, it's just hard to consistently land birbs onto people to make it deal damage) and on top of that she'd still provide great support, be it through her ult saving people (Or baiting out ults and then negating them) or the boosts her Soulmate link provides (I.e. The huge 20% damage boost onto the teams Assassin/Hunter in addition to her own damage would be very nice damage output)
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

    We need more kawaii skins!

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