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Thread: Warlocks staff could use a tweak

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    I think the problem they have with changing it in any way is how to make it useful to Mages without having Guardians abuse it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    I think the problem they have with changing it in any way is how to make it useful to Mages without having Guardians abuse it.
    What's wrong with Guardian's using the item?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    What's wrong with Guardian's using the item?
    Exactly, especially since we're in a season where Guardians get shredded pretty fast too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    I think the problem they have with changing it in any way is how to make it useful to Mages without having Guardians abuse it.
    I would say its the first bit.

    The problem with Warlocks is trying to find the balance of the item being useful while not giving glass cannons a ticket to being hard to kill without hurting their damage output. It doesn't really have anything to do with Guardians since they will pretty much never build this thing in Conquest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    I would say its the first bit.

    The problem with Warlocks is trying to find the balance of the item being useful while not giving glass cannons a ticket to being hard to kill without hurting their damage output. It doesn't really have anything to do with Guardians since they will pretty much never build this thing in Conquest.
    With Conquest you never know, last week the few Conquest games I tried had some really janky stuff in them.

    Depending on how it is designed, it could wind up being used by Guardians, look at some other items right now.
    Guardians Blessing, sometimes Mages preferred by Solo Laners over Warriors.
    I recall some items were changed based on certain classes expected to use them but those classes ignore the item, it winds up on gods of different classes.
    So you cannot rule out the possibility of the design being used differently than designed thus have to insure any final design will not cause more problems.

    I wonder if they could give it some kind of health + power per level effect while lowering the stacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    Depending on how it is designed, it could wind up being used by Guardians, look at some other items right now.
    Guardians Blessing, sometimes Mages preferred by Solo Laners over Warriors.
    The issue with Guardians trying to utilize Warlock's Staff in Conquest is that Guardians 1) Are often support so they can't afford to get the item and they're not going to be last hitting and 2) Guardians mostly have pretty poor wave clear and so don't even get a ton of last hits in solo lane (Which is why Guardian's Blessing has become fairly popular because if you struggle to last hit anyway, may as well get the starter that benefits you from not last hitting)

    Meanwhile, a stacking item inherently wants you to buy the item early, as your first item before/after boots, so you have time to get the stacks to make the item fully powered. Also, it wants you to be able to actually get last hits, meaning having a lane to yourself and being a god with good enough wave clear as early as you pick the item up.

    Hence, Mages in the solo lane can do well with a stacking item since they can usually clear waves pretty easily (Their issue is more one of survivability, especially if their lane opponent is a Warrior that's pressuring hard) while Guardians generally are fairly passive just letting Guardian's Blessing stack up and kind of just soaking the farm up until they rotate in the mid-late game and start CCing everyone for days.
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    Pretty sure Cerberus is the only one who could reasonably stack Warlocks in solo lane as far as Guardians go, maybe Kuzembo and Ymir
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    Cerb and Kuzenbo could do it yea, but again; why bother stacking Warlocks when you could just go other bulk HP items that don't takes 15-20 minutes to be relevant? When you have items like Genji's, Oni's, Void Stone, Pestilence, Midguardian, all things that provide both HP and Prots and don't take time to be useful.

    And then even if you want pure HP items, you've got Winged Blade, Stone of Gaia, Relic Dagger, etc.

    If you want an item that gives Power and HP for a solo-bruiser anyway you just go E-Staff, and the later the game goes the better % steal it gets.
    Last edited by Goobis; 11-16-2018 at 12:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    Cerb and Kuzenbo could do it yea, but again; why bother stacking Warlocks when you could just go other bulk HP items that don't takes 15-20 minutes to be relevant?
    Because this here thread was created with the purpose of making the item not shit?

    Then with the item being not shit, there might be actual reasons to pick it up on a Guardian if the stats were worth it?

    Right now, yes, there's no reason to get Warlocks on a Guardian, especially given their lacklustre wave clear for the most part. Heck, there's no reason to get Warlocks on anyone, since it's not the highest power item in the game anymore so glass cannons don't care and for bruisers it's just not worth the investment.

    But if the item was changed, so for example: It required less stacks, it was better stats on the base item so was relevant without stacks, the overall stats on the item post stacking were more defensively focused (Rather than having a bunch of power on it, having more health and maybe a utility stat like CCR, CDR, MP5), if the item had an evolution at max stacks that gave it an interesting and useful passive effect, etc.

    Then there might be some reason why a Guardian in the solo lane might consider picking the item up, in addition to other Bruiser mages.
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