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Thread: Warlocks staff could use a tweak

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    Member Worshipper SquireAngel's Avatar
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    Warlocks staff could use a tweak

    So, I've been loving my bruisers lately. My absolute favorite item for physicals when it makes sense to build it is Blackthorn hammer. The hp is immense, and it has nice supplemental stats as well. For mages, the closest equivalent stat wise would have to be warlocks. I've been trying to run Hera slightly more bulkier, as well as just have a decent item hp wise for my guardians and Hades/Zhong. Now, the item does have really nice stats after its stacked, but when built, you're putting yourself behind by a pretty far degree. The stats would be worth the stacks, but the base stats aren't enough to hold even against a straight item, or powerful enough to lead into a full build.

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    Trash Doggo Demigod Goobis's Avatar
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    Warlocks has always been an awkward item for balance because it hinges on being underwhelming and not worth the hassle to stack or it turns glass cannons into bulkier characters that still possess heavy damage. Right now just rushing T2 Thoth is better flat out for both coming online and having early strength, so it doesn't really leave any room for Warlocks. Now I agree atm the thing kinda sucks and is pretty outclassed, but buffing the base stats of a stacking item kind of defeats the purpose of a stacking item, so I wouldn't support that route.

    What might be more effective is if something is done to make the T2 Thoth start less mandatory, be it early nerfs/buffs/tweaks to itself, or other T1/T2 items.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    What might be more effective is if something is done to make the T2 Thoth start less mandatory, be it early nerfs/buffs/tweaks to itself, or other T1/T2 items.
    Or, you could make Warlock's Staff into a more of a defensive Guardian-esk item. Where the idea won't be to just pick it up in lieu of a decent Book of Thoth to get a huge power pool as a glass cannon mage, but instead to pick it up on magical gods who just want raw health to be tankier and don't care so much about the power on the item.

    So reduce the power the item gives, reduce the stacks needed to fully stack a bit and maybe if you're feeling generous put an extra utility stat on the item (CDR, CCR, MP5 or something)

    Which could turn it into a decent, if somewhat greedy, item for magical gods in the solo lane. Maybe some magical supports might try and grab it too if they get some farm time. With less stacks required, perhaps it could even see play as not a 1st item like it pretty much needs at the moment due to its insane 100 stacks and crummyness before at least 40ish stacks...
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    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    How about a fully stacked Warlocks unlocks a unique passive?
    That way, stacking would be worth it, without giving it raw stats.

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    Trash Doggo Demigod Goobis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoIdschuss View Post
    How about a fully stacked Warlocks unlocks a unique passive?
    That way, stacking would be worth it, without giving it raw stats.
    That's subjective.

    Even if you gave it a secondary passive, it would have to be a stupidly good one for people to consider skipping that 65 Power from T2 Thoth and the general power spike and sustain finishing book gives you.

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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    That's subjective.

    Even if you gave it a secondary passive, it would have to be a stupidly good one for people to consider skipping that 65 Power from T2 Thoth and the general power spike and sustain finishing book gives you.
    Which is a very awkward situation.

    Since, essentially, these 2 items are vying for the same spot in the build. As an early game stacking power spike once stacked.

    With whichever one of the 2 is strongest being the meta.

    In addition to this, if Warlocks is made to compete power wise with Thoth then you get the side effect of removing some of the "Glass" from the Mages that are typically given that as a downside.

    As such, Warlock's would need to be changed so that it's focused more at a different demographic of users, so instead of the raw power stacking glass cannons, someone else (Much like how Hunters with Trans/Devo's takes one depending on whether they focus on their basic attacks or their ability damage). So that it wouldn't come down to glass cannons going "Which one is strongest right now? I'll take that one" and it's more of a "Well, I'm going X build so Warlocks will do more for me than Thoth"

    This could be anything you can think of (Though, most mages are "Stack power" even if they play very differently) but the most obvious solution is going more towards the defensive aspect of the item, given that it stacks health and is the only item in the game to do so, combined with a couple of mages want to use it because they gain protections and generally build tankier anyway (Hades/Zhong).

    That and I think it could be cool if Guardians could get a T3 stacking item that they could pick up while being bruiser builds (As Warriors can already pick up Trans to get a powerspike amp'd by mana from BoV/Jotunn's and they also get some CDR and MP5 to boot) as well as being more feasible to let Mages go support roles with access to a good health booster to mitigate their garbage scaling (One thing I was surprised about with Lono's was the complete lack of health on the thing...)
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    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    That's subjective.

    Even if you gave it a secondary passive, it would have to be a stupidly good one for people to consider skipping that 65 Power from T2 Thoth and the general power spike and sustain finishing book gives you.
    Well hopefully so, it is a stacking item after all. Why go through the hassle and stack an item that, in the end, is going to be just as good as another finished item? The tradeoff for having a weaker early game (aka not picking up T2 Thoth) should be a powerful item, when fully stacked.

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    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    Staff comes as more of a Solo Mage item but takes too long to stack, Solo Mages prefer other defenses.

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    Member Worshipper SquireAngel's Avatar
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    I kinda want it to be the mage blackthorn hammer stat wise. It's not a mandatory item, but its VERY nice for health and power In a bruiser build. Passive could literally be anything not stupid and it'd be nice for bruiser builds on gods like aphro, Hades, Zhong, or tanks in general.

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Reduce stack requirements to about 60, Landing at the same HP boost but reduce it's end power, and give it a fully stacked passive.
    suggested secondary passives:
    *if you would be Killed, revive on spot with 1% hp and a 25% hp shield that lasts 5 seconds, 180-240 second cooldown.
    * an almost absurd mount of HP5
    * a low % heal on casting abilities
    * a low % damage mitigation

    make Warlocks staff more reasonable to stack and shift it away from power and more toward Sustain/survival.
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