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Thread: Smite Hunter Diversity?

  1. #31
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    omg, and this guy trying to tell im, as an arena player, can't discuss about balance...
    You can't. That's how it works. Either play the mode where balance is decided or stop talking about balance.

    unlike you, that "one-trick guy that mains arena" knows, that assasins have 4 gods without hard cc:

    Bakasura have no cc ouside of slow in his ult.
    Bastet only have 2 slows in her kit.
    Camazotz have no cc at all.
    Nemesis have only slow in her 2 and her ult steals speed, so its another slow.
    He wasn't literally saying they have just one, he was saying there was at least one in each category. There's a hard-CC-less god in every class.

    mages have 4:

    Hel, Ra, Sol and Zeus. they all have one slow, Ra also have a blind.
    Sol has a knockup on her ult.

    also, hunters outclass other classes in ADC role and you suggest to make them able to play other roles for what? to make them outclass other classes in thier roles aswell?
    No, to make them more fun to play by giving them more options.

    and, lets say, we have a hunter, who can play as support - he is tanky and have a lot of cc for it. now imagine this hunter play as ADC and you meet him in 1v1 situation... you won't survive this fight, unless he is gipsed and have an IQ level of pillow...
    He doesn't have to be tanky. He can be more like Apollo or something. "Support" doesn't mean "tank." Shit, he can even sacrifice damage for it.

    before they gonna give make hunter able to play other roles, thay should make them less broken.
    If the game's not gonna be balanced, it might as well be fun.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    Bakasura have no cc ouside of slow in his ult.
    Bakasura's ult also cripples. Which I consider to be a quasi-Hard CC personally. Since while the game classifies cripple as soft CC, it does prevent (Some) actions which is the definition of hard CC.

    Camazotz have no cc at all.
    Camazotz's Vampire Bat's slows by 30% for 3 seconds...

    Sol. they all have one slow
    Sol's ultimate has a knockback. You know, the thing you've been bemoaning for gods know how long?

    also, hunters outclass other classes in ADC role and you suggest to make them able to play other roles for what? to make them outclass other classes in thier roles aswell?
    You mean like how Mages outclass everyone in a mid role and as soon as they got gods that were designed as Junglers/Solo/ADC or were used as supports they now outclass everyone in those roles?

    How Assassins outclass everyone in Jungle and when people started being able to run them in solo/support they started outclassing everyone in that role?

    How Guardians outclass everyone in the support role, but when people started running them in the jungle/solo they started outclassing everyone in that role?

    Or is it just that because every Hunter has been specifically and wholly designed to be THE BEST in the ADC role that they're actually good at it, since every single hunter is designed as a "Build damage items, deal absolutely disgusting amounts of DPS"

    and, lets say, we have a hunter, who can play as support - he is tanky and have a lot of cc for it. now imagine this hunter play as ADC and you meet him in 1v1 situation... you won't survive this fight, unless he is gipsed and have an IQ level of pillow...
    Unless they don't just make them a copy/paste of every other hunter and then change their stats/kit to beef them up like a mongoloid, and actually make adjustments to give downsides.

    Like, a primary example, would be a reduced effective range. So instead of being able to plink away for full damage up to 55 units away, they have to be within like 15-20 units to do full damage and deal considerably less outside of that.

    Then it would be akin to if the likes of Ymir, Cabrakan, Ares or any Warrior built full damage. Yes, they'd be able to do a lot of damage, but they have to get close and so be easily killed (Unless being ran in the Jungle and so having a Support and Solo laner to initiate and frontline)

    There are other ways of balancing too. Such as the way Nox/Isis are balanced in that they're not actually tanky themselves, they just can build that way because CC doesn't care about power. Otherwise they have high damage potential still but because of the way their CC is skillshot based they're not dominant over other mages.

    They could do something like give a new hunter a jank basic attack, similar to how no-one really likes Izanami because without her steroid it can be hard to confirm her full basics.

    They could do something similar to old Freya and make the god melee with only temporary access to range basics.

    These are just examples too, there's so much potential to limit a gods capabilities in an ADC role especially since TFG have the benefit of knowing exactly how varied they can make Hunters (Much like how while Guardians are typically melee but then we have Sylvanus who's a ranged Guardian)
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    You have over 600 hours on the only god you play and you still don't know she has a Hard CC.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Sol has a knockup on her ult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Sol's ultimate has a knockback. You know, the thing you've been bemoaning for gods know how long?
    knockback, actually(to SirKeksalot, because knockup and knockback is not the same)... i know, i know it better, than any of you, because, just as Goobis said, i played her over 600 hours. and that's why i can difinitely say, that this knockback never helps you, it only makes you never deal full ult damage. i played her over 600 hours and during all of this time i had one single moment when that knockback was usefull - in corrupted arena event i trowed a guy into a hole, nothing more.

    talking about this knockback as a hard cc is the same as talking about guns and considering the recoil as a positive effect...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    You also can't tell me about role balance and laning phases when you don't even know how to play the only mode where it matters.
    i actually played 100+ conquest matches

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    Now those three are perfectly fine, but its so bad that Hunters are the best at the role that they are specifically designed for and outclass gods being played in roles they aren't designed for?
    it is bad. ADC mages don't outclass hunters in ADC role. same with Ao Kuang and jungler role, Zhong Kui, Nox and Hades and support role, and others. but having multirole hunter means they gonna dominate in those roles aswell, because their kit and itemization allows them to have high mobility, cc, ability damage and aa damage AT THE SAME TIME.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    He wasn't literally saying they have just one, he was saying there was at least one in each category. There's a hard-CC-less god in every class.
    he did, read this again

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobis View Post
    It's also Ironic that you bring up hard cc when Hunters have the most gods without hard cc out of the other classes at two. Assassins have one, Warriors have one, and Mages have one.
    he said hunters have two(2) gods without hard cc, assasins have one(1), warriors have one(1), mages have one(1).

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    You can't. That's how it works. Either play the mode where balance is decided or stop talking about balance.
    and this is how balance in this game works: balanced/UP gods may not be balanced/UP in modes outside of conquest, but OP/broken gods are OP/broken in every mode. good example - release Artio, she was OP everywhere...

    so, may be i can't say about when gods are balanced, but i can difinitely say when they are(or gonna be) OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    No, to make them more fun to play by giving them more options.
    with current itemization and a way how stats are, giving them more options = making them broken. simple example, you play hunter as mid laner, it means you build power to deal damage with abilities, like a mage. but you can build deathbringer or/and malice for power, since those items gives 40 power each(simple question - WHY?), and still wreck enemy mid laner with your aa when you out of mana.

    lets say they gonna fix this shit... and how exactly? they won't lower their natural aa damage/scaling they never do this, whey only playing with passivies and damage/attack speed buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Bakasura's ult also cripples. Which I consider to be a quasi-Hard CC personally. Since while the game classifies cripple as soft CC, it does prevent (Some) actions which is the definition of hard CC.



    Camazotz's Vampire Bat's slows by 30% for 3 seconds...
    cripple is soft cc, even if we consider it as hard cc, its still 3 assasins without hard cc, not 1 as he said.

    yea, my mistake about Camazotz, but slow is soft cc, nvm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    You mean like how Mages outclass everyone in a mid role and as soon as they got gods that were designed as Junglers/Solo/ADC or were used as supports they now outclass everyone in those roles?

    How Assassins outclass everyone in Jungle and when people started being able to run them in solo/support they started outclassing everyone in that role?

    How Guardians outclass everyone in the support role, but when people started running them in the jungle/solo they started outclassing everyone in that role?

    Or is it just that because every Hunter has been specifically and wholly designed to be THE BEST in the ADC role that they're actually good at it, since every single hunter is designed as a "Build damage items, deal absolutely disgusting amounts of DPS"
    no, its like you play mid and build deathbringer and malice for power(because those 2 bullshit items gives 40 power for some stupid reason) and then fuck enemy mid laner up with aa, and you don't give a single fuck about nemean, since you can just damage them with abilities...

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Unless they don't just make them a copy/paste of every other hunter and then change their stats/kit to beef them up like a mongoloid, and actually make adjustments to give downsides.
    and what makes you think whey won't? especially these days, when they didn't make anything realy uniques during god releases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Like, a primary example, would be a reduced effective range. So instead of being able to plink away for full damage up to 55 units away, they have to be within like 15-20 units to do full damage and deal considerably less outside of that.
    and it won't change anything... do you know why Ao Kuang doesn't dominate over any assasin in jungle, regardless he is a mage and stuff? because he is melee, just as any assasin and his playstile is the same.

    but how can a hunter be melee? hunters are ranged by difinition. with reduced range you can gank someone and if you not succeed, you still can just "pew-pew-pew"

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    There are other ways of balancing too. Such as the way Nox/Isis are balanced in that they're not actually tanky themselves, they just can build that way because CC doesn't care about power. Otherwise they have high damage potential still but because of the way their CC is skillshot based they're not dominant over other mages.
    no, Isis and Nox not dominate over other mages because they have to land thier cc to deal actuall damage, while hunters are "hold LMB to win"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    They could do something like give a new hunter a jank basic attack, similar to how no-one really likes Izanami because without her steroid it can be hard to confirm her full basics.
    and make a hunter, that can't be ADC...

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    They could do something similar to old Freya and make the god melee with only temporary access to range basics.
    and this god is not gonna be a hunter anymore, because hunters are ranged by difinition, same as this god gonna be trash it ADC role...
    Last edited by BakaCircle9; 09-24-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    talking about this knockback as a hard cc is the same as talking about guns and considering the recoil as a positive effect...
    It can have positive effects though.

    The number of times I've stopped Cabra tremors with it for example.

    For the direct use of trying to land all shots of your ultimate for maximum damage, yeah, the knockback sucks because it just makes it more awkward to land all the hits.

    But the fact remains, that it is a hard CC and that comes with advantages where gods like Zeus, Camazotz, AMC with only soft CC cannot do anything.

    it is bad. ADC mages don't outclass hunters in ADC role. same with Ao Kuang and jungler role, Zhong Kui, Nox and Hades and support role, and others. but having multirole hunter means they gonna dominate in those roles aswell, because their kit and itemization allows them to have high mobility, cc, ability damage and aa damage AT THE SAME TIME.
    How so? Just don't give the multi-role hunter a ton of stuff in their base kit and the issue is moot?

    A tanky bruiser Hunter isn't gonna be able to build triple crit and still be tanky. Thus when they build tanky they lose a lot of damage.

    We have evidence that Hunters aren't the best in every role (By the fact that no-one plays 5 Hunter comps... At best it's double hunter and often relying on Fafnir's Coerce to melt objectives and structures)

    We also have evidence that the best classes in their role for non-ADC roles don't automatically become best in other roles when they have access to it.

    So why would a Hunter designed not to be an ADC, so they won't have basic attack steroid, they won't necessarily have a skill to clear waves amazingly early, they won't necessarily have a CC that sets up for them to be able to LMB for free, they won't necessarily have a mobility skill that lets them GTFO when dove on, automatically become the best class for that role?

    Unless you think that Hunters magically have 12 item slots so can build to have 3k+ health, 200+ both prots, 300+ power as well as having triple crit and Qin's and all the penetration items so will be this unstoppable killing machine?

    with current itemization and a way how stats are, giving them more options = making them broken. simple example, you play hunter as mid laner, it means you build power to deal damage with abilities, like a mage. but you can build deathbringer or/and malice for power, since those items gives 40 power each(simple question - WHY?), and still wreck enemy mid laner with your aa when you out of mana.
    Oh so that's why no-one ever plays Mages and Mages are completely obsolete because every game has a Hunter in the mid lane because they're just better than Mages!

    Wait, no... That's not the case.

    Hunters get used in mid lane, but it's still mostly mages. Even with "Broken" things like crit items having high power.

    no, its like you play mid and build deathbringer and malice for power(because those 2 bullshit items gives 40 power for some stupid reason) and then fuck enemy mid laner up with aa, and you don't give a single fuck about nemean, since you can just damage them with abilities...
    But if you're just damaging them with abilities... Then a Mage would be better because they have stronger abilities due to similar scaling to ability Hunters but double the power...

    Hunters don't dominate over Mages in mid. There's no reason why they would dominate over other in Jungle/Solo/Support if given the opportunity, unless they were poorly designed. Just like how Hunters are only dominant in one place right now and every other class is dominant in exactly one place despite their capability to multi-role.

    and what makes you think whey won't? especially these days, when they didn't make anything realy uniques during god releases.
    Because if they're making a Hunter specifically to not be an ADC it would be fucking stupid to just copy an ADC and tune the stats, because they would just end up having to nerf the stats and then they're left with another bog standard Hunter ADC clone?

    but how can a hunter be melee? hunters are ranged by difinition.
    A Hunter can be melee just like a Guardian can be Ranged (Sylvanus) or a Mage can be melee (Ao Kuang) or just close range (Hades, Zhonger Donger, The Morrigan, He Bo, Chang'e)

    Heck, Ullr has a melee stance, Cernnunos has a passive that boosts his basic attacks at melee range, Apollo has PBAoE skills, Anhur/Hachiman/Hou Yi/Medusa have mobility skills that give you bonus damage/CC if you jump onto/dash into an enemy.

    There's no hard and fast rule that every Hunter MUST be Rama with skills that work at 55+ units.

    with reduced range you can gank someone and if you not succeed, you still can just "pew-pew-pew"
    Except that "pew-pew-pew" will do garbage damage if they're not close if there's a heavy damage falloff to your attacks.

    Also, it's no different to a failed gank being turned around because an Assassin used a ranged skill to finish off the target...

    no, Isis and Nox not dominate over other mages because they have to land thier cc to deal actuall damage, while hunters are "hold LMB to win"...
    This literally makes no sense?

    Hunters being ADC's are why Isis and Nox aren't dominant over other mages when build for damage?
    and make a hunter, that can't be ADC...
    THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT

    and this god is not gonna be a hunter anymore, because hunters are ranged by difinition, same as this god gonna be trash it ADC role...
    Hunters don't have to be ranged just like how other roles aren't strictly subject to their stereotypes.

    Also, a Hunter that's designed with not being an ADC being trash in the ADC role is literally the fucking point.

    Just like Ao Kuang is trash as a standard mid lane mage.

    Just like how Kuzenbo is trash in the support role.
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    mmh' nice nice _ as it is monday _ the team needs a summary of specifications requiered :

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    your budget is 0$ and you have to render a viable proposal for friday , and we submit this to Bernstein&Bernstein next monday ...(and here if you are involved in the results of the company the boss tells you "it is a plan we can earn 700millions i expect you to be good" , if he doesnt : consider yourself as a shit slave and i advice you to change your life fast)

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  6. #36
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    knockback, actually(to SirKeksalot, because knockup and knockback is not the same)
    They are, you're just too stubborn to admit it.

    ... i know, i know it better, than any of you, because, just as Goobis said, i played her over 600 hours.
    That doesn't mean jack shit if you're clearly not even smart enough to learn to spell. Also, Magic has a higher winrate than you, implying that even though you've played her more, he's better, so kindly suck our collective left nut.

    and that's why i can difinitely say, that this knockback never helps you, it only makes you never deal full ult damage. i played her over 600 hours and during all of this time i had one single moment when that knockback was usefull - in corrupted arena event i trowed a guy into a hole, nothing more.
    If you weren't a shitty Arena main, you'd know you could sync this with your team to set up their damage and that this ult would be grossly OP if you could confirm all of it without an ally locking a target down.

    talking about this knockback as a hard cc is the same as talking about guns and considering the recoil as a positive effect...
    Not if you aren't stupid.

    i actually played 100+ conquest matches
    Me and Magic both have far, far more hours in Conq than you.

    it is bad. ADC mages don't outclass hunters in ADC role. same with Ao Kuang and jungler role, Zhong Kui, Nox and Hades and support role, and others. but having multirole hunter means they gonna dominate in those roles aswell, because their kit and itemization allows them to have high mobility, cc, ability damage and aa damage AT THE SAME TIME.
    Refer back to what you're replying to in the context of that post and, if you aren't illiterate, you'll see that you really are a huge hypocrite for saying hunters shouldn't be able to fill multiple roles. There are mages, guardians, warriors, and assassins who can all flex. There are hunters who can flex right now.

    and this is how balance in this game works: balanced/UP gods may not be balanced/UP in modes outside of conquest, but OP/broken gods are OP/broken in every mode. good example - release Artio, she was OP everywhere...
    Zeus is not OP in Conquest. Odin is not OP in Conquest. These are OP gods in Arena because they're so teamfight-oriented and have been for ages, but they're OK at best in Conq.

    so, may be i can't say about when gods are balanced, but i can difinitely say when they are(or gonna be) OP.
    No, you can't.

    with current itemization and a way how stats are, giving them more options = making them broken.
    Stop talking like there are no hunters who can play multiple roles and have multiple pros right now.

    simple example, you play hunter as mid laner, it means you build power to deal damage with abilities, like a mage.
    What? That's not what mid means. Mid entails pushing the mid lane. Whether or not you're the team's source of ability DPS is irrelevant; you can put Neith or Medusa in mid and have a mage somewhere else on the map.

    lets say they gonna fix this shit... and how exactly? they won't lower their natural aa damage/scaling they never do this, whey only playing with passivies and damage/attack speed buffs.
    That shit is in the game now. They're physical gods; they have to combine abilities with AAs to have the same effect as a mage.

    cripple is soft cc, even if we consider it as hard cc, its still 3 assasins without hard cc, not 1 as he said.
    So is a root, but that's only because the game counts it as such. Cripples stop you from using all movement abilities entirely, so they're effectively a hard CC because, as the wiki defines soft and hard CC, respectively:

    Here is a list with every type of crowd control effect along with some relevant information, sorted by type.
    This type of crowd control completely prevents the target from taking certain actions, like moving or casting abilities.
    no, its like you play mid and build deathbringer and malice for power(because those 2 bullshit items gives 40 power for some stupid reason) and then fuck enemy mid laner up with aa, and you don't give a single fuck about nemean, since you can just damage them with abilities...
    After mid-game, physical abilities by themselves are never enough to kill a target in a full rotation. They must be supplemented with AAs.

    and what makes you think whey won't? especially these days, when they didn't make anything realy uniques during god releases.
    He's being hypothetical, not saying HR will or won't do anything.

    and it won't change anything... do you know why Ao Kuang doesn't dominate over any assasin in jungle, regardless he is a mage and stuff? because he is melee, just as any assasin and his playstile is the same.
    You just proved his point.

    but how can a hunter be melee? hunters are ranged by difinition. with reduced range you can gank someone and if you not succeed, you still can just "pew-pew-pew"
    A range of 20 is not melee. The longest AA range of any melee god belongs to Cu Chulainn at 16.

    no, Isis and Nox not dominate over other mages because they have to land thier cc to deal actuall damage, while hunters are "hold LMB to win"...
    He didn't say they dominate other mages, he said they're balanced. Hunters do not factor into his statement because he was addressing mages. You would know this if you could read.

    and make a hunter, that can't be ADC...
    That's not necessary.

    and this god is not gonna be a hunter anymore, because hunters are ranged by difinition, same as this god gonna be trash it ADC role...
    You mean like how mages are ranged by definition? Guess Ao's a ranged god, then.
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    wanna know a simple way to give hunters some diversity without making them broken? it's realy simple: get rid of the principle 100% aa power scaling for EVERY hunter. if they make a hunters for other roles with aa scaling about 50-60% they may not be broken.
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    Soo, I posted this thread on Reddit to see what they think and there is a somewhat interesting response, that I'd like to share with you. He's on to something there.

    I think the problem is one of definition - the ADC role needs to supply high and sustained damage, not just for fights but especially for objectives. If you were to hypothetically add some hybrid hunters you'd either have gods that fulfilled more than one role well and overshadow the more traditional ones, or basically have a backup ADC that would probably go more turret mode as the game went on.

    I suspect the underlying problem is with the math of damage itemisation. Damage, crit, and attack speed all multiply your dps. Like some one sitting at two attack speed and %40 crit turns ten damage into into 24 DPS. And it's an increasing rate of return - the more you get the better it all is.

    So you either have a situation where the numbers are overwhelming (and thus a worthwhile strategy) and make anything but autoing pointless as well as making it a requirement to have on your team so that the enemy doesn't hugely outscale you, or a situation where your sustained damage isn't worthwhile (assuming retuned numbers).

    I think in order to have strong Hunter diversity that matters you would need to remove crit, add some objective pressure to other roles, and then introduce damage steroids around certain play patterns in their kits. The end result would be adcs that felt different (due to playing around their damage multiplier condition, preferably less cooldown window related) while still having strong sustained DPS with perhaps a little more room in their builds.

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    I've seen many bruiser build hunters in my arena days (in conq you gotta farm and push so power, pen and sustain is always better in conq, in conq as a game mode you will therefore pretty much never see other builds that are viable).

    Not sure if frostbound can be built by hunters anymore? But I've seen super slowing tanky amc in arena doing really well.

    Artemis can ez be build cdr and tank in arena as her ult is just so good, as is the trap, both need you to be close to their team so it makes sense.

    I do think balancing kits to be working well both at 55 and for some hybrid bruiser purpose would be kinda hard though. If a squish with range can use items well to be a bruiser, Gods that are non squish, have kits for mitigation etc and melee would utilize all those items better. So balancing items and kits to give hybrid hunters is hard. Its clear hi rez already took a step away from this by making katana tree melee only, nerfing frostbound for ranged etc.

    While cool balancing for it is to much of a headache I reckon.
    Rocking the boat

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    As I don't use Reddit, I wanna respond to that response here:

    I think the problem is one of definition - the ADC role needs to supply high and sustained damage, not just for fights but especially for objectives. If you were to hypothetically add some hybrid hunters you'd either have gods that fulfilled more than one role well and overshadow the more traditional ones, or basically have a backup ADC that would probably go more turret mode as the game went on.
    This is part of the reason I mention limiting attack ranges on non-ADC focused Hunters, so that while they CAN go ADC later in the game, they're not going to be as effective at it and depending on how strict a limitation they get they might work just the same as a glass cannon Assassin like Mercury, Baka, Kali, Arachne whom CAN do insane sustained damage but in the late game they just don't have the opportunity to get in range to put out that damage.

    Failing that, we already have gods that do this. Primarily Freya. She can function as a jungler and late game she becomes more turret ADC focused (Well, outside her chunking like 80% of peoples health with a single hit from her 1 thanks to Poly being nuts).

    Mercury often can do this too, less so in teamfights, but when there's like a GF, FG or tower that's free for him to walk up he is basically another ADC for taking them down.

    Sol and Chronos can also do this too, they can play mage like in the early-mid game and then come the late game build an attack speed item and start shredding objectives too.

    I suspect the underlying problem is with the math of damage itemisation. Damage, crit, and attack speed all multiply your dps. Like some one sitting at two attack speed and %40 crit turns ten damage into into 24 DPS. And it's an increasing rate of return - the more you get the better it all is.
    Well, this is what makes Hunters the pinnacle of god killing ADC, crit is just bonkers. 130% bonus damage on 100% scaling attacks.

    However, crit doesn't do anything against structures. Nor would it help in an alternative role (Except maybe Jungle if you had the means to capitalize on it)

    I mean, personally, I would actually love crit to be removed from the game in its entirety. RNG based obscene damage spikes that also turns into really good sustain because lifestealing from 500+ crits is just dumb. Which meant I was pretty thrilled when Hi-Rez removed those crit passives (Though, their thoughts on it still left some logic behind... Trying to remove random early game crits. Yet Ne Zha still gets his 15% crit chance from a single value point into his steroid... Kind of like when they went and removed all stat conversions from the game, except for Book of Thoth, Transcendence and Vamana passive...)

    I think in order to have strong Hunter diversity that matters you would need to remove crit, add some objective pressure to other roles, and then introduce damage steroids around certain play patterns in their kits. The end result would be adcs that felt different (due to playing around their damage multiplier condition, preferably less cooldown window related) while still having strong sustained DPS with perhaps a little more room in their builds.
    Technically, there is already objective pressure on other roles. Basic attack based junglers already shred objectives if they can stick on them. Mages have Polynomicon which MELTS structures and objectives alike (Yet, inexplicably, it hasn't caught on yet. Like, it's core on Freya, but still no-one really uses it against objectives. The thing does insane damage to even structures especially if you can proc it on CD or close to it)

    With regards to Hunters, removing crit wouldn't in of itself promote diversity. Especially since crit builds aren't even the most popular builds (It's usually Qin's build with maybe a single Poisoned Star thrown in for its proc), most notably because crit doesn't take down structures, which is the core role for a Hunter as they typically have the damage (Thanks to 100% scaling basic attacks) and the range to apply the damage.

    Honestly, if you wanted to overhaul the current Hunters to make them different from each other, you'd have to redesign an entire shop of items specifically for Hunters. Since, no matter what their kits and steroids may be (Or may not be in the case of Neith) nothing stops them from having inherent 55 unit range and the ability to buy a bunch of power and get to 2.0+ attack speed and pew pew objectives.

    But this facet is also why playing around with their range is how to make them less desirable at transitioning into ADC's, since the core of the matter is when 5 enemy players are sat under their Phoenix and insta-clearing any minions that get close, then the only 2 options available are: Jump in and get a huge teamfight win while they have the Phoenix shooting at you and a fountain to go back and heal from. OR you get a frontliner to step just inside Phoenix range to take the aggro and have your Hunter throw some basics on it and take it out.

    With less range, that latter solution is not available as that shorter range Hunter would need to get closer and thus could be initiated on by the defending team.
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