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Thread: Smite Hunter Diversity?

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    Smite Hunter Diversity?

    I was just wondering if it would be plausible to have some more (Or rather, actual) diversity in the Hunter role of gods.

    Since, it seems to me that they're the role with the least amount of diversity among all the roles.

    I mean, with Assassins you have glass cannon hypercarries but you also have sturdier bruiser types that can go to solo lanes and build tankier. While also having some with potent CC and non-power related debuffs that even allows a more support based usage.

    Guardians have some backline supporter types that provide a lot of boosts to their allies if they can throw skills at them, then there are the more CC heavy frontliner types that can just sit infront of their allies and be a wall for the enemy to get through and you have the more damage orientated ones that can build bruiser and kick out good damage and excel in solo or jungle roles.

    Mages are the most diverse role in the game. With Assassin types that are close ranged high burst damage gods that excel in the jungle. You have CC heavy ones that can work as a more support type god. There are tankier ones that function as a Warrior and can build either bruiser or full tank and excel in solo. You have basic attack focused ones that perform ADC duties as well as having traditional high ability damage mages.

    Warriors have basic attack focused bruisers that W+LMB at you, there are ability based bruisers that just pummel you with abilities constantly and there are some more CC heavy ones that try to just lock people down.

    Meanwhile with Hunters...

    It's all just "Sit 55 units away and hold LMB and win" or for ability Hunters it's "Sit 55 units away and use abilities, until they become shit compared to your basic attacks then hold LMB and win". Basically only filling in an ADC role (Mousesports be damned) - Even when played in the mid lane they just Mage it up for the early game and then transition into 55 unit LMB turrets...

    Which is somewhat annoying. Especially when we've been teased with potential. Things like Ullr having a melee stance (With built in sustain), Cernnunos getting a boost when using basic attacks at point blank range, Chernobog literally diving right next to someone as an ultimate, Hachiman getting bonus CC to dash up close to someone as well as utilizing ranged based damage multipliers to give a damage penalty at excess range, Apollo having a literal shiteton of AoE buffs/debuffs in his kit.

    But alas, they're all tweaked so that it's not really feasible to utilize any of these kits in a way other than giving a slight bonus when you use them between holding LMB while standing 5 miles away from anyone else. (Yes there are situations where you use your mobility to get up close to people so you can land more basics, but that's a far cry from something like an Ao Kuang who has to get up close to do anything and literally plays like an Assassin. Or Zhonger Donger who also has to get up close and really does play like a Warrior)

    I dunno... I just think it would be cool to get stuff like some hardier Hunters that excel in close-mid range and can be built bruiser and be run in solo/jungle. Or Hunters that have less reliance on power and can be utilized as a support due to things in their kit allowing them to be useful while building defence with less gold than a core. Rather than them all just being "Go glass cannon"
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    i see a hudge difference between jing wei and muzen or chiron , it is not 'just' staying away and waiting

    some can rush ( "i want names !!!" = ex : hachiman jingwei cupid) _ talking about cupid he can heal and has some anti rush ult and a little stun, as neith which is the rooter you need when you have no tanks in assault .

    izanami the ninja has something special _ does ullR counts ? _ do you include sol and chronos in the list ? or zeus if played as an adc ?

    i see the same variety in adc than in mages _ line or ground _ stand firm or rush _ short range or long range _ adc mage or adc basic _ if you see 2 adc that are the same i want names clearly and frankly cause i dont see from here [VVVT] answer please

    as reminder : adc is for noobs , you know those who ask " how do you do [VEW] ?"

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    And this is another problem with the class system: where other classes are relatively vaguely defined, hunters are explicitly backline ADCs. A god in any other class can fulfill a variety of purposes at once, but the most variety a hunter has is having some traits of an assassin/mage that don't really change their playstyle a lot. The class is too narrowly-defined.

    Darkspore, of all games, had a better class system. There were just 3 classes: tanks of any kind, backline characters of any kind, and close-range squishies of any kind. That's the 3 basic positions a character can fill in a fight, and it covers all the bases. How they dealt their damage, or even if they were focused on damage rather than utility or support, didn't change that. Where Smite fails is A. it defines classes based on what damage type they have and not how they deal damage, B. its classes are at once too broad and too narrow, and C. it has no room for "hybrid" or "specialist" characters that just don't fit existing labels. The result is the clusterfuck we have now.

    Could there be more varied ADCs? Yes; but HR has put themselves in a corner where ADCs must be a certain thing. To top it off, there's little variety in how different ADCs go about being ADCs. They're all either partially casters or they're steroid-reliant, if not both at once. HR is just bad at character design like that.
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    Senior Member Chosen RandomToon's Avatar
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    Apollo, which you mention. He is a "get in your face" hunter. He also requires a bunch of practice at keeping his passive up with his dash. With the changes to Silverbrach Bow, he has huge burst potential with it. Timing the mez to interrupt and gain the edge in a boxing match, and knowing how to apply pressure with him both in and outside of fights.

    He is great, but "his" big problem? People want a standard ADC and only know how to play with someone who sits at 55 units and holds LMB. The number of supports that freak out when Apollo dashes in is hilarious - Apollo needs peel, not initiation. People think you suck unless you just stand back and LMB but he is not as good at it as others, so suffers a bit.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Could there be more varied ADCs? Yes; but HR has put themselves in a corner where ADCs must be a certain thing. To top it off, there's little variety in how different ADCs go about being ADCs. They're all either partially casters or they're steroid-reliant, if not both at once. HR is just bad at character design like that.
    This is part of the problem. The thought process that Hunter must equal ADC.

    That's part of what other classes get away with, literally no other class in the game is shoehorned into literally one role. Even Guardians have more damage based bruiser characters such as Ares, Cabrakan, Cerberus, Sobek and even Athena whom might be lacking as a support but might excel as a solo or jungler (Not to say that Athena is lacking as a support, but she is equally viable in the jungle thanks to her good damage and easy rotations)

    Not all Assassins are glass cannon hypercarries. You have the likes of Camazotz, Ravana, Thanatos and Nemesis who are naturally hardy with inbuilt sustain and can excel with tankier builds.

    Yet for some reason all Hunters must be ADC? Why can't there be a Hunter designed as a Jungler? A Hunter designed as a Solo laner? A Hunter that can be run as a Support (Like how you might see Ne Zha, Serqet, Nox or Isis supports)?

    There are design decisions made that suggest this possibility, as I mentioned in my OP, a variety of gods exists that have close range boosts. There even exists scaling damage so you can make a Bruiser Hunter still have 55 unit range like literally every ranged god in the game, but not doing full damage at that range so they still have to get close and so can't just be a tanky ADC.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandomToon View Post
    Apollo, which you mention. He is a "get in your face" hunter. He also requires a bunch of practice at keeping his passive up with his dash. With the changes to Silverbrach Bow, he has huge burst potential with it. Timing the mez to interrupt and gain the edge in a boxing match, and knowing how to apply pressure with him both in and outside of fights.
    Sure, in a boxing situation, he can dash in and use his kit pretty well. Much like an Anhur can jump on you and then impale you into a wall or a Hou Yi can offensively leap to get the knockup from his mark.

    But in a teamfight situation, you try and dash into the middle of 5 enemy players and you'll get shredded before you can even cast your mez afterwards.

    Which is why ADC's are oft wanted to be 55 unit LMB turrets, because they can apply their damage without being completely open to 5 people counter initiating them. It's the same reasoning why Assassins can fall off late game, because when it comes down to sieging a phoenix, they have to dive PAST the phoenix and into the midst of 5 enemy players in order to reach the squishies they're supposed to target.

    It's the same thing with "Ability based hunters" yeah, they play differently early-mid game when they can rely mostly on their abilities to do the brunt of their damage contribution, but again, late game it all comes back to LMB spam because Hunter's only role is ADC.

    Where's the Jungle Hunter? Solo Hunter? Support Hunter? We don't even have a "Well, they're not inherently designed for that but you can do it anyway" Hunter. Like how you see mages like Baron, Aphro and Chang'e playing in the solo lane and building full tank. How you can run Freya in mid, ADC or jungle roles. How you can play freaking Ne Zha, one of the hard carry Assassins as a SUPPORT.

    I mean, the best we've had as far as I know was a brief period where some people tried running Anhur in the jungle... It went poorly and then I haven't recalled seeing or hearing about anything other than Hunter ADC in either duo or mid and that's about it.
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

    We need more kawaii skins!

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    you can make a cupid support/healer if you want or a tank neith _because after all the "tanking" belongs to Aigames where the tank actually gets the aggro from mobs , down here the tanks are those who stun so .. neith can endorse this role without difficulty ... in theory

    i said in theory cause of course , try it just once and you'll get insulted like hell & reported for noobism unless ... you play assault ) this will be the same if you play zeus tank , even if i excell with agni tank_rush_stun which is really delightful and a good solution against loki in arena for exemple.

    hell yeah assault , the only place you can experience freaky teams and builds.

    if ullR is included in the list you can build him the way you want and play the role you want , he has almost everything :he can jump & stun

    morale of the story : you are free to do whatever you want, at your own risk if you are teamed with toxic players.

    one last question : does the panel of items allows you to play muzen support ? %after healing from an ability works ? cause after all muzen just needs mage blessing + the crusher to be poyzonous enough to play ,)

    i give you for free a tank skill not written in the books = 'bodyblock'

    the only limit is your imagination in fact


    ps : conquest roles suxx , it is just a repartition for xp and money on early game , once first towers are destroyed you regroup & push one lane in priority ... and that's the moment where confusion begins and where noobs dont know where to go and ... biiim defeat due to bad leadership and lack of obedience/reactivity
    Last edited by FRONTdeQUICHE; 09-21-2018 at 03:34 PM. Reason: just too shy to try

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRONTdeQUICHE View Post
    you can make a cupid support/healer if you want or a tank neith _because after all the "tanking" belongs to Aigames where the tank actually gets the aggro from mobs , down here the tanks are those who stun so .. neith can endorse this role without difficulty ... in theory
    You can, but it's still a bad idea. Neith's kit and stats don't complement her playing like a tank, and Cupid doesn't have enough supportive power to be played like a true support.

    i said in theory cause of course , try it just once and you'll get insulted like hell & reported for noobism unless ... you play assault ) this will be the same if you play zeus tank , even if i excell with agni tank_rush_stun which is really delightful and a good solution against loki in arena for exemple.
    Yeah, because it's a shitty idea.

    hell yeah assault , the only place you can experience freaky teams and builds.
    It's also not the main game mode, so it's irrelevant.

    if ullR is included in the list you can build him the way you want and play the role you want , he has almost everything :he can jump & stun
    That's...not "everything" a god can do. In fact, it isn't even "many things." Ullr has range, mobility, CC, and sustain, save for the basic ADC fodder. When you get down to it, that's notable, but necessarily a lot.

    morale of the story : you are free to do whatever you want, at your own risk if you are teamed with toxic players.
    Or if you don't want to get buttfucked by players who actually give a shit about how to play and build gods right.

    one last question : does the panel of items allows you to play muzen support ? %after healing from an ability works ? cause after all muzen just needs mage blessing + the crusher to be poyzonous enough to play ,)
    You can play it, but it's still a stupid idea. He doesn't have the utility for it. If anything, Apollo would be a better support, being that he's something like Kumbha's estranged ADC cousin from Kentucky.

    i give you for free a tank skill not written in the books = 'bodyblock'
    And I give you a universal skill also not in the books: "not feeding your brains out because you built hunters for support instead of the things hunters are good at."

    the only limit is your imagination in fact
    There's a whole lot more if you happen to like winning.

    ps : conquest roles suxx , it is just a repartition for xp and money on early game , once first towers are destroyed you regroup & push one lane in priority ... and that's the moment where confusion begins and where noobs dont know where to go and ... biiim defeat due to bad leadership and lack of obedience/reactivity
    Conquest is also the main mode, meaning it's what the game is mostly designed around. Your personal opinion is irrelevant.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRONTdeQUICHE View Post
    you can make a cupid support/healer if you want
    No you can't.

    Because his CC is delayed which makes it unreliable. In addition, his healing is awkward and heavily reliant on power to scale past the first 2 minutes of a game.

    Unlike Baron who's healing is predominantly the percent based, or Chang'e/Aphro whom can pick up Rod of Asclepius to boost their healing.


    a tank neith _because after all the "tanking" belongs to Aigames where the tank actually gets the aggro from mobs , down here the tanks are those who stun so .. neith can endorse this role without difficulty ... in theory
    Tanks exist in PvP too.

    They're the people on the front lines, the ones initiating fights, counter initiating fights and peeling for their allies.

    Neith tank doesn't work because like other non-Guardian/Warrior classes she's inherently too squishy to sit on the frontlines.

    Then, unlike other off-role supports, she only has 1 hard CC in her basic kit and doesn't even offer a reliable ult (Her ult is single target and can be body blocked)

    morale of the story : you are free to do whatever you want, at your own risk if you are teamed with toxic players.
    It's not toxic players that are the problem, it's that certain built gods are just plain BAD.

    Like, you can build Mercury for ability damage. Using stuff like Crusher, Heartseeker, Brawler's and 40% CDR or you can build power Sylvanus with Rangda's Mask and full glass cannon but they'd suck because their kits and stats just don't function to make that actually decent.

    As I mentioned, people, including some pro players, DID try Anhur Jungle, because in theory he does well right? He has decent camp clear early because Impale is pretty strong. He can theoretically gank well because leap into impale into pillar and basics/desert fury is decent burst damage and control. But in practice it just doesn't work out because like all Hunters his base stats just don't work out well enough to make it good (Hunters have pretty poor base attack speeds, but have good AS per level to scale into mid-late game well)

    one last question : does the panel of items allows you to play muzen support ? %after healing from an ability works ? cause after all muzen just needs mage blessing + the crusher to be poyzonous enough to play ,)
    No.

    He has no hard CC aside from his ult. He has no other utility outside dealing damage and proccing damage based item effects.

    It'd be like running Camazotz support. You get into a fight and... Slow someone a bit? That's just not enough impact to actually support your team...
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

    We need more kawaii skins!

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    sorry but neith tank it worth a mimir for sure _ line root instead of cone stun _ just adjust the stuff and you can frontline _ this is based on facts not theory cause i practiced it in assault 1v5 not in conquest 1v1 for pussies mitch please it works and you control hard without any contest.

    cause the real name of the tanks here should be controller like mimir or hercules , not opener like you suggest , opener is wukong for exemple .tanks are those getting the aggro , there is NO aggro vs human players , they can ignore you if they want and if nothing forces them to do the opposite = you dont represent a pain = you dont bother them = you dont stun or kill .

    cupid healer is an other problem cause the stuff is not here and those little hearts requieres players to go walk on it unless you aim like a sniper so i admit it is hard to process _ but should be possible if you ask for something "different" _ and ... oh you are saying yourself it is stupid , you ask a question and the answer can be nothing else but stupid ... is it a gay test ?

    the main reason nobody does it is just because it is stupid to fight close to close when you can stay at a respectable distance , and those assassins with ranged skills are happy to have some in assault the time to grab a good occasion to rush _ everybody wants to kill without risks , thats why they prefer gods with jumps and disability , ranged or not ,)
    and i repeat i excell with agni rush tank combo 1+3...+2+4.4.4 it is melee agni and it works fine , as loki players are used to focus agni it is a nice trick to do and "oh surprise !!" YOU are dead , the time to understand it is too late , damages are reduced but you still can fight and give m8s opportunities to kill _ stun power ! ! ! try it love it , get antiCC resistances and cdr and you're OP

    the other side of the thing is : if you want a ranged with fun style , just get a mage ,) as simple as that, and which means fun means without crit cause crit is not fun ,)
    and again there is no stupid questions , just people . roles have conditions to fullfill and yeah hunters have no healing skills except cupid , camazotz have no stun so cant be controller , forget about asking an autobus to make a hill_flip_nose_faki mitch please !!!!!

    this topic is a non debate _ "i want a smurf which is not blue !!" _anwer : get a troll instead it is a green _ end of story
    Last edited by FRONTdeQUICHE; 09-21-2018 at 04:50 PM.

  10. #10
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    why dont you elevate the debate with a proposal _ i have one

    japanese pantheon : Hyi Sun Sin _ the best admiral of all times (korean)_elevated to the rank of god of naval battles
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    he was a notorious archer , can headshot you from a boat which is EPIC !!
    so _ give him a bow as basic attack
    then :
    skill1 _ a leap or a canon with recoil like vulcan pushing away like anhur
    skill2 _ a taunt buff/debuff that unroots/stuns
    skill3 _ a whirl like poseidon that makes enemies spin/turn around (famous trick he defeated hundreds of japanese boats 1vsMany)
    ulT _ the famous turtle boat , sort of erlang shen turtle remixed vamana ult mega health mega def that stuns when struck

    and you're done with an archer that can support tank or open at will _ here you go !

    now what mother lovers ! ! !
    Last edited by FRONTdeQUICHE; 09-21-2018 at 05:31 PM. Reason: support your local hardcore scene

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