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Thread: Chernobogs ult is INSANELY OP

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    Chernobogs ult is INSANELY OP

    As a genuine request please stop making characters with globals, they are consistently the best characters in their slot.

    Rat,Athena Chern are all MONSTERS to deal with.

    Back to topic:

    Chern ult is an almost INSTANT
    global rotation that cant be stopped (targets ghost target, not friendly)
    global vision
    global slow
    MS self buff
    cooldown reset
    %damage reduction self buff
    6 second duration!!!

    like HELLO?? who designed that and thought it is okay? I mean even if you just write down what it does it looks incredibly bloated even if you had no idea how good these individual aspects of his ult are.

    Even if you take away everything except the fast global rotation it is STILL insanely good.

    This guy is NOT okay in his current state at all, not even a little bit. Please just strip everything away from his ult except the rotation, chern himself will always have the vision anyway no reason to make it teamwide as well. Put a bit of responsibility into the hands of the chernobog to make decisions for his team based on what he sees.

    And please reduce the movement speed of his flight significantly. As it is right now you cant contest anything on the map because the second you do, and you use any ability, this guy just comes over instantly and walks you down with his 30ms vs your slow. It is just crazy. The threat of him alone having his ult makes any pressure on the map impossible because theres literally 2 people there already.
    At least with athena you can see it coming for a few seconds. This guy rotates way too fast.
    Last edited by CurrentValue; 09-08-2018 at 05:42 AM.

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    Rat's ult isn't global. In any case, you get a huge warning about what's going on; it doesn't make any sense in his kit, but being a poorly-designed god doesn't necessitate being OP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurrentValue View Post
    stop making characters with globals, they are consistently the best characters in their slot.
    Thanatos, Thor, Apollo?

    If you want to count non-mobility globals, Neith, Nu Wa?

    All best characters for their slot?

    Nah, it's other parts of their kit that make them so strong.

    Like, Athena having the best CC in the game on a mere 15 second CD.

    Rat having his Acorn to give him an early game powerspike without needing to back to base.

    Chernobog having amazing wave clear early on.

    Their global rotation ability is nice, but it's not the end-all-be-all of why they're top tier.

    At least with athena you can see it coming for a few seconds. This guy rotates way too fast.
    Unless he was literally standing 2 feet away from you when he ulted, Chern also takes a few seconds to reach you.

    To the point where if you can do something like put down an Artemis trap on the shadow he's going to, he's easy pickings as there's nothing he can do to prevent that insta-trap other than pop beads (But then you nail him with Tusky when they wear off)

    Persistent ground effects as a whole really shut him down. Be it to counter his ult rotation by placing them on his shadow, or setting up for when he has to come out of the wall after he's escaped into it.
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    Senior Member Prestigious zecleria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    Rat's ult isn't global. In any case, you get a huge warning about what's going on; it doesn't make any sense in his kit, but being a poorly-designed god doesn't necessitate being OP.
    it makes plenty of sense in his kit. jump at the enemies feet, stun and spin. perfectly logical.
    You may think all gods have huge amounts of courage, but only xbalanque has the balls to use them as weapons.

    0.3 instead of 30% again.
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    edit: after making a maximum of 1 more post please return to the subject of chern ult being broken af

    You really dont get a huge warning if he just pulls the trigger on the dive immediately after going up. Its much much faster than athena. There are players who hover. You should not hover.

    Apollos global is terrible and barely deserves the name. Hes oom when he comes down. It takes 5 minutes for him to get from duo to midlane. He takes another minute to land. Its good enough for running away but its impossible to rotate with it to gank camps when they are being pressured.

    Thor is much better than people give him credit for. Unfortunately hes worse than rat in almost every aspect so you just pick rat instead and he requires really top tier execution which most people are very far from. Also his clear is still butts even after the cd buff on his 3.

    Thanatos has the same issue. Really slow to rotate. not great as a character, replace with rat ??? profit. Thana also still sees play in the SPL every now and then. Even when most of his kit is objectively garbage. The ult makes the character acceptable.

    Neith sees on and off play in the SPL all the time. Just a good global and super safe. Even though she is objectively awful as a hunter and she doesnt even bring herself along with her global.

    Also people who dont play conq commenting on how globals arent that good ./facepalm

    As a sidenote none of these characters have a global that has such an insane list of added effects and none of these characters have globals that are as fast and as guaranteed. And the speed of his rotation really is a huge problem.

    You can LOS neith ult, athena u can kill the guy. you can dodge the others. Chern - you are going to be slowed for 6s, he is going to come down on your ass with 30%ms and all the other stuff. There is no counterplay.
    Last edited by CurrentValue; 09-09-2018 at 08:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zecleria View Post
    it makes plenty of sense in his kit. jump at the enemies feet, stun and spin. perfectly logical.
    I mean that it feels more like something an assassin would have. It would fit better on some sort of melee god rather than a ranged ADC with conditional mobility that's not ideal for sticking power.

    Quote Originally Posted by CurrentValue View Post
    edit: after making a maximum of 1 more post please return to the subject of chern ult being broken af

    You really dont get a huge warning if he just pulls the trigger on the dive immediately after going up. Its much much faster than athena. There are players who hover. You should not hover.

    Apollos global is terrible and barely deserves the name. Hes oom when he comes down. It takes 5 minutes for him to get from duo to midlane. He takes another minute to land. Its good enough for running away but its impossible to rotate with it to gank camps when they are being pressured.

    Thor is much better than people give him credit for. Unfortunately hes worse than rat in almost every aspect so you just pick rat instead and he requires really top tier execution which most people are very far from. Also his clear is still butts even after the cd buff on his 3.

    Thanatos has the same issue. Really slow to rotate. not great as a character, replace with rat ??? profit. Thana also still sees play in the SPL every now and then. Even when most of his kit is objectively garbage. The ult makes the character acceptable.

    Neith sees on and off play in the SPL all the time. Just a good global and super safe. Even though she is objectively awful as a hunter and she doesnt even bring herself along with her global.

    Also people who dont play conq commenting on how globals arent that good ./facepalm

    As a sidenote none of these characters have a global that has such an insane list of added effects and none of these characters have globals that are as fast and as guaranteed. And the speed of his rotation really is a huge problem.

    You can LOS neith ult, athena u can kill the guy. you can dodge the others. Chern - you are going to be slowed for 6s, he is going to come down on your ass with 30%ms and all the other stuff. There is no counterplay.
    Almost everything in this post is just wrong. Apollo's ult is really good, Thor is better than Rat, Thanatos is a beast if played with relative competance, Neith has been strong for a long-ass time (if not particularly strong for a hunter) and her ult is easy to counter if you're not alone.

    OT, you wanna know the counterplay for Chern's ult? Save your escape for AFTER he lands. Pop Sprint or a slow-immune ability if you have it. You actually do get a pretty lengthy warning beforehand because he takes a couple seconds to get to you, providing a visual AND audio cue prior.
    Last edited by SirKeksalot; 09-09-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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    You really dont get a huge warning if he just pulls the trigger on the dive immediately after going up. Its much much faster than athena.
    It still takes time for him to get to you, especially if he's going cross map (Which he will in Conq because he's likely over in the long lane)

    Also, you get the warning of a shadow of him popping up next to you and the fact that your entire screen gets the shadow effect around the edges when he targets a shadow near you to go to.

    Athena you at least need to see the person she's going on (Meaning a blink initiation from an Assassin she's ulting to = 3v1 and no warning. GG)
    Apollos global is terrible and barely deserves the name. Hes oom when he comes down. It takes 5 minutes for him to get from duo to midlane. He takes another minute to land. Its good enough for running away but its impossible to rotate with it to gank camps when they are being pressured.
    And you've further proved that the presence of a global skill doesn't mean the god is best in its role.

    Apollo has a global skill, his ENTIRE kit is bloated tf.

    He's bottom tier of the Hunters.

    So, maybe, just maybe, it's more than just a single bloated skill and a global mobility skill that's making other gods top tier?

    Thor is much better than people give him credit for. Unfortunately hes worse than rat in almost every aspect so you just pick rat instead and he requires really top tier execution which most people are very far from. Also his clear is still butts even after the cd buff on his 3.

    Thanatos has the same issue. Really slow to rotate. not great as a character, replace with rat ??? profit. Thana also still sees play in the SPL every now and then. Even when most of his kit is objectively garbage. The ult makes the character acceptable.
    Again, more evidence to the contrary of gods with globals being "consistently the best characters in their slot."

    Lets face it, global skills aren't the sole reason why Athena/Chern/Rat are top tier.

    Since if it was true then you'd also see all the other global gods being picked with similar priority, especially when those three invariably get banned.

    However, you do not see these other gods getting picked to the same frequency.

    Sure, Neith gets some mid-lane action in the SPL and there was that lulzy Summer Finals where solo Thana was picked a bunch (If I recall correctly, he mostly lost).

    But it's nowhere close to the consistent Athena/Chern/Rat first pick first ban priority, because of things other than just their global ults.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    OT, you wanna know the counterplay for Chern's ult? Save your escape for AFTER he lands. Pop Sprint or a slow-immune ability if you have it. You actually do get a pretty lengthy warning beforehand because he takes a couple seconds to get to you, providing a visual AND audio cue prior.
    So basically you suggest to NEVER use your movement ability ever as long as chern is on the map and has ult. Because as i said. it takes him 2 seconds from duo to solo lane (and most ganks dont require him to go that far anyway!) and by that time your movement ability does not come up again. Suggesting everyone should just pop sprint when he ults is ridiculous considering how important other relics like beads and blink are. And even if you do spend your relic slot on sprint at level 1 (which means youre now dead to a lot of other things btw), youre still only 10% faster than him. Meaning without a top tier dash hes still just going to walk you down with his own.

    Seems balanced.
    Last edited by CurrentValue; 09-09-2018 at 11:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CurrentValue View Post
    So basically you suggest to NEVER use your movement ability ever as long as chern is on the map and has ult. Because as i said. it takes him 2 seconds from duo to solo lane (and most ganks dont require him to go that far anyway!) and by that time your movement ability does not come up again. Suggesting everyone should just pop sprint when he ults is ridiculous considering how important other relics like beads and blink are. And even if you do spend your relic slot on sprint at level 1 (which means youre now dead to a lot of other things btw), youre still only 10% faster than him. Meaning without a top tier dash hes still just going to walk you down with his own.

    Seems balanced.
    Yeah, it is. 110s cooldown on a hunter that most people don't build cdr on, and he usually uses it to gank ppl that are by themselves, so ideally you'll have your escape still available. You know where he's going to land coz you can see where his shadow is so you can set up for him. It's easy to counter him if you know what you're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CurrentValue View Post
    So basically you suggest to NEVER use your movement ability ever as long as chern is on the map and has ult. Because as i said. it takes him 2 seconds from duo to solo lane (and most ganks dont require him to go that far anyway!) and by that time your movement ability does not come up again. Suggesting everyone should just pop sprint when he ults is ridiculous considering how important other relics like beads and blink are. And even if you do spend your relic slot on sprint at level 1 (which means youre now dead to a lot of other things btw), youre still only 10% faster than him. Meaning without a top tier dash hes still just going to walk you down with his own.

    Seems balanced.
    You say this like there are no other abilities in the game that mandate you save a certain ability for when they're used. By your logic, Hades, Ymir, Sobek, and a multitude of other gods are OP.
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