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Thread: 3- mage arena comps - why so frequent now?

  1. #11
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    Yeah there are a number of players who refuse to tank for reasons.
    To be fair, they don't make playing tank particularly rewarding in this game.

    Between being expected to buy auras, lack of "Fun" stats such as CDR on many items, the fact that come mid-late game you can find yourself being wholly underwhelming with little output (So you rely so heavily on your allies doing everything for you) while still being shredded in seconds (Thanks percent penetration, you're so great and make the game so fun /s)

    Not even talking about the low farm prioritization that you get as a tank so you get items and levels slower than everyone else... (While often needing to get 3 items online before you can really do much in a teamfight. Boots, Phys prots and Mag prots. With health also being something you want too but a luxury not always possible to build for... While damage dealers only need to care about one type of penetration to undo a large portion of that...)

    In addition to being the person who's expected to die if it means the rest of your team survives... Meaning more time spent respawning, less time getting experience and gold etc...

    It's no wonder that people tend to favour the carry roles or when they're forced to pick Warrior/Guardian they build them for damage. Tanking in Smite just isn't very fun.

    I say this as someone who mains tanks in EVERY other game that facilitates it, but can barely stand playing the role here in Smite.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Some people just pick sit in back and wait for someone else to do the work Gods. Like Nu wa, Change, Hachiman, Mercury, Loki. Don't get me wrong you can play all of these aggressively, but when I see a draft like that in arena most often its people that don't wanna die but wanna be able to easily get on kills. If you are top ELO that game it means you have to create things, peel, deal dmg, pretty much do 75% of all the work as 1 player. It can get real frustrating, sometimes I pick straight up troll picks into stuff like that and sometimes I try and win with a good pick. There are like 5 tanks you can pick to solo tank a game like this, who have initiation, peel, enough tank and dmg. Herc, Xing, Baccus, Kumba and Cerberus (maybe nike also but I don't play her). Playing these 5 tanks gets old pretty fast though and at a point the desire to have fun trumps the desire to carry a win as someone who try and do it all. When blocking a nox ult is part of a successful rotation in your arena game and everytime you miss a backliner dies, its rough man.

    If team picks up hybrids and Gods that say I wanna go in and do things this opens up a lot of other warriors and guardians to pick.

    Xing is one of the better dmg guardians I feel. With tank items he can reach 30k in arena which is enough dmg to make the other less courageous members of your team go in and try and do something, his peel is not great but its ok. Kumba has the best peel and also decent dmg, always good in arena. Baccus is flexible and can go more aggressive in build if people don't need as much babysitting or if you need to carry super hard, good peel as well. Hercules is more of a one trick pony but can carry a game on his own if you are better at herc then they are at avoiding him. Cerberus is tricky as his peel is not the greatest but he can still get it done. Apart from these 5 I feel all other tanks lack dmg or peel to be able to solo tank in arena (if the enemy team has a comp that is above average)

    2 Mage comps ain't that bad but they are much better if you have one hard carry mage (like chronos, freya, scylla) and one support mage that builds gem of iso, spear of magus etc (like zhong, agni, puch).

    if ppl pick 3 mages one of them should be such a support mage or its really dumb, one should preferably be a bruiser type like zhong, anubis, baron or AO (yes kuang is actually a fine tank mage as he can build tanky enough to survive ripping their tank prots to shreds with his 2 and demonic and possibly spear, then ult them after backup dmg from team OR gtfo with his 1). 3 squishy mages that all wanna build the ego high power cookie cutter build doesn't work well at all.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 11-15-2018 at 01:04 PM.
    Rocking the boat

  3. #13
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    Some people just pick sit in back and wait for someone else to do the work Gods. Like Nu wa, Change, Hachiman, Mercury, Loki.
    Huh... I actually rarely see any of those gods except Loki and Mercury. The former because it's Loki and I play mostly Arena/Clash the latter because he's so ridiculously OP right now...

    The "Let everyone else do the work and then get the KS" gods I mostly see are the likes of Nox, Discordia, Janus and Ra for mages, Neith, Cupid and Ullr for Hunters and Thanatos and Ratatoskyr for Assassins...

    There are like 5 tanks you can pick to solo tank a game like this, who have initiation, peel, enough tank and dmg. Herc, Xing, Baccus, Kumba and Cerberus (maybe nike also but I don't play her).
    There's way more than 5 tanks that have initiation, peel, survivability and damage...

    Artio, Athena, Ganesha, Geb, Kuzenbo, Sobek, Terra for Guardians.

    Cu Chulainn (If you're allowed to punch minions to get your rage up...), Odin, Achilles, Chaac for Warriors.

    Also, I'd say not Nike... She lacks peel. Since all she can do is pop her ult for the slow and... Jump over the course of about 15 years so everyone died of old age before she landed and tried to knock them up... Also meaning that if the enemy buys a Heavenly Wings, Nike becomes just a walking passive and that's about it...
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    Senior Member Honoured Wildstreak's Avatar
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    Most of the time in Arena if I go mage it is hybrid / tanky ones. Puch, Baron, Aphro, Hel, Nox and Zhong.

    Usually does good.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    The "Let everyone else do the work and then get the KS" gods I mostly see are the likes of Nox, Discordia, Janus and Ra for mages, Neith, Cupid and Ullr for Hunters and Thanatos and Ratatoskyr for Assassins...
    This is a good list. Though I find most Discordias actually do something as her range is pretty good, tossing away a 2 and 1 doesn't take that much commitment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post

    There's way more than 5 tanks that have initiation, peel, survivability and damage...

    Artio, Athena, Ganesha, Geb, Kuzenbo, Sobek, Terra for Guardians.
    Yeah but not all can hard carry an arena game through both damage and peel as solo tank. Sobek is actually really good I forgot about him, cc immune for so long with slow means easy repositioning and great damage if fully charged. Why Herc, Bacchus and Xing is top of my list is to their great mobility, peel and damage. A herc with regrowth can move up ult on someone low and get a kill and then run all way back to your backline with regrowth proc and worst case his 1 to gain more distance and then peel with his 2. Both terra and athena are iffy, Terra lacks peel but can do great upfront dmg if built for it to encourage the team and dissuade the enemy. Athena is great in arena, one of the best, but if your team is total muppets she actually doesn't provide enough to carry the game the same way a herc, sobek or Bacchus does as she only has one good peel.The rest on that list is supbar as solo tanks in the kind of games I'm talking about. Geb as example can't save people with shield that are heavily under focus and his 0.5 knockup ain't enough to save anyone or initiate for muppets, but with good team mates that aoe 0.5sec is a total killer as 0.5sec is all a good team needs to severely punish someone. I guess Ganesha can work but its way harder stunning someone in your ult dmg then just hitting a boulder with herc. Artio doesn't have enough mobility (one stun during her rush thing and she can't get anywhere to help with anything).

    I mean as herc you can initiate with the 2, use ult for dmg then hit 3 for tanking (which allows you to build more greedy on the dmg side) and you still have the 1 to dash infront of a nox ult that is about to shot your squish in the back, or knockout a loki going for someone. Same thing with sobek you can initiate with your 1 and still have 2 and 4 for great peel. But ganesha for example needs to save his 3 for a loki and initiating with 1 and 2 doesn't exactly do much.

    Keep in mind this is from the perspective that you are the only frontliner and also the only one that can be relied upon to peel for the backline. To win you basicly need to do 2 jobs and be at 2 places at the same time.

    To hard carry as a dmg dealer all you need to do is to trade better then their team does and its a much easier gameplan to understand and for some Gods also to execute. Even if they kill 1 on your team it doesn't matter if you kill 2 as a trade. But as solo tank with a really scared team you need to both setup kills, take kills and prevent kills and not all Guardians are fit to do that well in arena.

    Like this is no thing during peak hours but if you play at 04:00 with high elo you are bound to have more noobs on your team then they do and carry that as solo tank is bound to fail unless you pick a tank that has everything and more in their kit.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 11-16-2018 at 11:36 AM.
    Rocking the boat

  6. #16
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Yeah but not all can hard carry an arena game through both damage and peel as solo tank.
    They can and I often do with them.

    Athena has only one CC yes, but her combo can just delete people. With max CDR and a bit of power, you can just erase a squishy every 7 seconds. You even have your ult to help when some doofus goes running off 1vX you can goomba stomp people then combo to follow up. But yeah, Athena can literally solo an Arena game because her damage output with her combo is just that good on top of her ridiculous Taunt.

    Artio can be shut down in her dash, but she also has a lot of tools that help her to mitigate that. I mean, she has healing like a Herc so you can get Regrowth if you really need the mobility. Then you have your ranged slow/root, your AoE cripple that can just stop certain gods from doing anything (For example, Serqet, Susano, Bastet, Erlang, Terra etc) and your AoE stun (Oh, and the slow on your charge too). She can easily bait out the CC to cancel her dash and then be free to use it.

    Ganesha doesn't need to stun people in his ult to do damage, even more so after his last change where the initial tick does more now. Basically, you put someone in the ult and you either place it so they're on the edge and take damage instantly, put them inside it so they choose to be pseudo-caged or try to walk out of it and take damage or you put it behind them and make their options be stand and fight or walk through double walls.
    Then you have your 1 and 3 for damage too, which aren't too bad if you have a bit of CDR.

    Geb has no peel? What are you on? You can literally fistbump people like a mile away with his Roll Out, his knock up does CC in a massive area and buys not a huge amount of time but enough to create space (Which in combination with your shield for the cleanse + health buffer is often enough to successfully peel) and of course his ult for stun. Not to mention how high his base damage is on his skills, meaning if you get some penetration you hit like a truck. He can initiate with his ult > knockup, which is very strong and very obvious for even the dumbest of idiots.

    Kuzenbo is also very disruptive, yes he's only got one non-ultimate CC, but one of his later changes means he gets reduced CD on it from taking his with his 2 up. It's also a very strong CC that is super good for peeling. Not to mention, he also peels by just standing around with Thorns and his 2 up. You try hitting a squishy when there's a full Reflectbro all up in your face returning 80% of the damage you deal back.

    What do you mean Terra doesn't have peel? The giant AoE root and ranged stun not good enough for you? That's more peel than Cerberus which you've listed. Terra's only issue is that she's hard countered by Ganesha and Artio since they just stop her from dashing ever meaning she can't use her root.
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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    I'd rather have triple mage than Warriors who build NO armor. this isn't duel. past level 10 you'll get deleted going full damage stop going full damage on Bellona, i don't care if you get 7 kills in a row once full built you died 10+ times before hitting 20.

    Triple mage is fine in many situations, particularly with 2 Warriors, or ideally a comp like: Ao Kuang, Hades, Vulcan with a Warrior and Hunter. I personally feel a 2nd mage flexing out the hunter or assassin is always fine, just don't like having games where only 1 character, especially a frontliner, is the only source of that damage type.

    I will say this though. Just because triple Mage can work, please please please don't expect a lot of great plays from your frontliner if he's the only one. Ares by himself vs Ares with an Ally Chaac/Bellona/Hercules/whatever are two games that have to be played VERY differently. The first Ares has to focus on things like Sovereignty and Heartward while the one with a partner can go Voidstone and BP of Valor with a lot less to worry about.

    the games i hate the most though, is if i fast lock a class, say a hunter....and then 4 more hunters get locked in. why. why do you do this. why do you want to throw a game so hard.
    Ares stole Aphrodite from Hephaestus
    Ares killed Poseidon's son for rape and was aquited for murder
    Ares is both the Father AND Grandfather of the Amazons. Feel free to "EWWW"
    Ares turned a guard that failed to anounce Helios into a rooster
    Ares supported Trojans. Ares has a ton of kids

  8. #18
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    They can and I often do with them.
    With a good team they are great, its not what I am saying. Most guardian have a few weakness that team needs to compliment. Some teams offer little compliment with their picks, then you need a good, have it all, pick.

    Artio is crazy with any combo of nice cc, serq, nox, disc etc. Thing is some games those criteria just don't exist to go over your cc combos.

    Ganesha dmg is OP, you just toss it in there and their team breaks lol, but if they all then just run away? Cause your team is Nu wa, rama, change, kali and they are slow to capitalize and rama hits no ults. Have to take kill to 90% by yourself, then you pretty much need to land stun when they stand in ult dmg or wall them in, bodyblock and silence to force them in. Not easiest play, as herc all you need is to land 2 on someone out of pos and they die or have to beads.

    Athena has a way of making great taunts and not having team follow up with anything substantial. Get caught in an Odin ult and then having to try and ult to teammate with a 5 sec charge to try and get out. Where is your warrior to help with ez combos oh that is right you are solo tanking with Athena.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 11-17-2018 at 07:06 PM.
    Rocking the boat

  9. #19
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    With a good team they are great
    What I'm telling you is that they are great.

    Stand alone.

    Not talking about team.

    As a 1v5 god.

    They are all good.

    They can all carry games.

    If you note, at no point have I ever mentioned comboing with an ally. Not a single time in any of my descriptions did I mention allies being anything other than useless.

    Yet I still say that these gods are good.

    Artio has crazy damage output herself, on top of a bunch of tools to make any god HAVE to sit around and take it, because she even shuts down gods that would otherwise just leap/dash away. Like, you get some good pen and Soul Reaver on Artio and she SHREDS things (Think about it, every single skill you use that deals damage = 2-8% max health damage. How often will you swap between bear and human form and basically pop all 4 damaging skills on CD...)

    Ganesha does a ton of damage with his 1 and 3. Throw in some Mystical Mail and while you're sitting on someone keeping them silenced through your 2+3 CC chain and you can do work even without his ult. Then you can still get good damage from his ult when you force people into bad situations with it (For example, preventing them from dashing/leaping out of it with Ohm while your Mystical Mail ticks away) not to mention how he just cripples any sort of channelled ability because lel Ohm.

    Athena can 100%-0% people. Herself. Alone. Solo. Dash for 280 +50% > Shield Wall for 200 +50% > Taunt > Shield Wall second hit for 360 +50%.

    That's 840 +150%. About as strong as a Mage ultimate. Not even accounting for weaving in basic attacks (With her passive boost too) for 65 +20-35% each.

    Or things like Nemean Lion/Thorns for when enemies are attacking you while taunted.

    It's so easy to build bruiser Athena and just blow squishies up. You do NOT NEED LITERALLY ANYONE TO HELP YOU TO CARRY ARENA GAMES WITH ATHENA.

    So, hopefully, instead of insinuating that I'm talking about using these gods in good teams, actually read what I fucking write when I say they can solo carry games.

    They all have very well rounded kits and can deal plenty of damage while having good CC to use to lockdown/initiate/peel.

    In fact, it's why I actually play them, because if I play a more team orientated god when I'm stuck as the tank the team will lose because the insta-lock Mages/Assassins are absolute garbage in like 90% of my games and if I can't try and do some heavy lifting with damage and CC then I don't play the god.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Honoured Diamondrainn's Avatar
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    It's true being a guard in Arena is very challenging and sometimes I'm just not in the mood to deal with players.

    Annoying factor as a tank in Arena:

    1. No support - people don't follow the tank's lead
    2. You are forced to buy Auras vs cool downs.
    3. You are fat and get hit easily lol
    4. Players to go frontline and die but they don't play a tank.
    5. It's challenging to set up when you are the only tank that has cc
    Diva Aphro, "Gurl bye!"
    That means Bye Biach!

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