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Thread: Underutilized Items Feedback

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Underutilized Items Feedback

    Hi, I want to use this thread to talk about a number of items I feel have been left behind. Items that I've not seen hide nor hair of in game for a long time (Even then, some only used rarely) and haven't seen a thread about either (I.e. I won't be talking about the Hammer tree).

    To get things started, there's a couple of Bridge items I wanted to go over:

    Firstly, Dynasty Plate Helm

    It used to be that Dynasty Plate Helm was a frequent purchase by mid-mages since it gave them a bit of power whilst aiding them from Assassins in the jungle coming to gank them.

    These days, even though there is even precedent for a mid mages going up against a mid hunter, who's trying to get pressure by boxing early, the item is not being used.

    I feel that the reason for this is twofold. One, is that there's more magical junglers being played, be it mages like He Bo or Ao Kuang (Even if they do go for garbage builds in the SPL) or the various Guardians like Athena, Cabrakan, Geb (Well, not really, it's bad xD) as well as more magical solo laners thanks to Chang'e and Zhonger Donger which renders the phys prots on the item useless.

    Two, is that these days magical items all have a lot more power than they used to. Pretty much every T3 item has 100+ power on and even T2's have often 60+. Meaning this items mere 45 power just isn't enough of a power spike to keep up.

    As such, I feel this item could be helped out with a slight boost in power and/or some magical prots. So it can secure a place in being a defensive item to pick up early to mitigate more aggressive comps.

    Next bridge item I want to discuss is Doom Orb

    So, Doom Orb got reworked from a risk vs reward style stacking item that reset on death, into this new bridge item that gives decent power, some mana and MP5 and a new passive. However, the item still isn't being bought very often, despite its cheap powerspike.

    I feel one of the issues with Doom Orb is its passive. Now, getting stacks of movement speed, is great. It lets you clear your wave and then you can rotate to a teamfight/jungle camp easier. However, my qualm is with the power stacks. You clear your wave, so then you have more power to? What exactly? You've killed your wave so you haven't got anything left to use the power on? If you rotate, the stacks don't last long enough to maintain any real uptime on a new objective if any at all...

    So, my feeling is that if that power on the stacks was replaced either by another stat to stack on its passive or just convert it into the base stats of the item (Say bump it up to an 80 power item for example).

    Now, onto the T3 items. To start with lets look at an old meta item: Shield of Regrowth

    This used to be a forgotten relic sat in the store list for Physical gods because it had a minor amount of phys power on it. It then received a rework into a universal item with 20%!!! CDR on it and we entered a "Zoom Meta" where anyone and everyone who had a self heal was grabbing this item and sprinting about the place (Immortal Hercs chasing you down with like infinity movement speed was great /s) and thus the item got toned down to 10% CDR and since then the item has just been gathering dust in the store again.

    Now, obviously, going back to 20% CDR would be a bad idea, creating a new zoom meta only worse as we have new healing gods in the meta right now anyway (Chang'e, Zhonger Donger, Ne Zha, Artio, Cerberus, Guan Yu and Achilles) who'd be pretty oppressive with this item at 20% CDR. However, I was thinking about what if it became less of a selfish item and more of a supporting one. With a reduction in the speed increase down to 20% but making it proc on allies that are healed, likely with a ICD increase from 10s up to 30s.

    It would be an additional support that healing gods would be able to provide, outside of raw healing and Lotus Crown protections.

    Next item on the list is actually in the same tree as the last, Mail of Renewal

    Mail of Renewal is bad. Well, actually, it's not fair to say bad, but it's just outright outclassed. It's literally an inferior Stone of Gaia. SoG is the same price, has the same health, has more HP5, has MP5 and has that passive percent health per second regen in addition to his proc on fairly common CC. Meanwhile all MoR has going for it is its 10% CDR...

    MoR's passive is just bad. It's a win-more passive on an item that doesn't actually help you win-more. The base stats aren't enticing enough to pick it for them (You're better off getting Sov, which sure, has less health on but instead comes with a ton of Phys prots and more HP5 as well as benefiting your team) and the passive is useless until you've started winning a fight/objective at which point you're either snowballing a win or backing off to not over extend, both situations don't need that regen passive...

    I feel the item needs to be reworked as a whole. It needs to figure out what its niche should be (To differentiate it from Stone of Gaia) and be worked around that. An example could be an aura effect akin to Talisman of Energy, only granting your team percent regen on kills/assists on minions/gods. Or it could be a more selfish item that procs as you take damage (Like at 75, 50 and 25% health thresholds it kicks in and gives you its 15% regen effect). Or it could be a counterpart to Gauntlet of Thebes and it be a stacking HP5/MP5 item that turns into an aura at max stacks.

    Next item, another bygone item: Shifter's Shield

    Shifter's Shield used to be quite popular. In particular, it used to be an alternative for Hunters to grab early in lieu of a stacking item. Whilst also being quite nice to pick up on Bruiser built Warriors/Assassins that wanted damage and some protections. It has since been nerfed with lower protections and removal of magical protections on the base stats (Now only on the sub-50% life passive)

    I admit, I haven't seen the item being used since that nerf. Nor have I ran it myself (Which I used to quite a lot back when it got changed to being a whole 70 power during the >50% life passive). These days, part of it comes down to just how effective Transcendence is for power. Trans giving more power than SS as well as that 10% CDR and of course the MP5, even without stacks, the stacks are just gravy. In addition, the lack of protections means it's not very desirable for bruisers since it's just an inferior power option at that point.

    I feel the item could do with a power shift (Hehe, puns). Removing the base protections altogether but increasing the passive protections (Both phys AND mag. Perhaps like 45-50?) while also shifting some of the power from the passive onto the base item (I'm thinking something like 45-50 base and then the 25-20 on the passive) making it more appealing for damage dealers who want a spike up in defences when they get low, but without such a drastic drop in power so they can't still do their job of securing a kill.
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Next item is the start of some newer items that never really took off, Oni Hunter's Garb

    This item recently received a buff to its relatively new passive that grants damage mitigation when near enemies (Sort of like Aphro's passive, but stronger). The buff was because the previous 2% per stack didn't feel impactful enough.

    However, I feel the issue with this item lies not in its passive (6% mitigation was nice. The current 9% is great), but in its competition.

    OHG, is a straight up mag prot item, looked at by primarily solo laners to pick up early (First/second item if laning against a magical god, or like third/fourth item when facing a physical god) but its competing with notably, Genji's Guard. OHG is better in the later stages of the game, where you're teamfighting more (To get the full passive stacks) and when people are doing more damage (So the mitigation means more) but it comes out lacklustre early on compared to Genji's which provides that much needed CDR to help win the lane in addition to that passive which is bonus CDR. Not only this but Genji's also provides 10 more protections, 50 more health and 10 more MP5 (Which is a big deal if you're unable to secure your blue buff)

    As such, I feel that Oni Hunter's Garb should get a stat, and price, increase in order to secure it as a more late-game focused item for solo laners that feel they don't need the early power spike from a Genji's but want more protection to frontline in the later stage teamfights.

    Next item on the list is an item I've never been thrilled by: Stone of Fal

    Stone of Fal is an odd item. Its base stats are far more offence orientated than the other 2 items in the tree (Void Stone and Stone of Binding). Yet, its still one of those items that's really focused on being a defensive item, with generally frontliners being the ones who want to pick it up (As they're most likely to be hit by big mage ults to proc the item)

    The issue with that being... Frontliners are less likely to be able to actually get the damn thing to proc in the first place. Since, not only will they have higher health (So more damage is needed for to hit that 20% max health target) but will also have build more protections overall (Meaning, those big mage ults are being mitigated so they do less damage)

    In addition, there are so many big mage ults that don't deal damage in a single instance, but rather over multiple hits such as Kraken, Supernova, Lightning Storm, Golden Apple of Discord, Taiko Drums. Which renders the passive, useless.

    As such, I feel that the passive could do with being reworked (Again) in a way that makes it more appealing to frontliners who will be getting hit by multiple hits of magical damage. As well as potentially making the base stats more defensive.

    Finally, the last item I want to talk about: Hastened Ring

    Magical gods replacement for Hastened Fatalis. It's now temporary Hastened Fatalis with an ICD and different base stats.

    For a while after its introduction, I did see the item being used on Freya/Chronos players. Though that soon fell off and I saw players shift away from this ring in lieu of items that provided more damage.

    These days, well... 50 power is not looking too good when compared to other items power. Heck, I see more Shaman's Ring on Freya/Chronos/Sol ADC builds than I do Hastened Ring and SR doesn't even have attack speed.

    I feel that the issue lies in the Haste effect on the passive which is eating up a lot of the stat distribution on the item. Meanwhile, it's easier to just build more damage and kill your target in less time so as to not need to chase with Haste.

    So, I think this item could do with its passive being changed from temporary Haste, into a temporary speed boost, which would still help with chasing, but wouldn't nearly need as much of the itemization, allowing for the item to get a more competitive level of power as well as opening up a bit more utility for gods that otherwise don't have access to speed boosts.
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

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    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    The issue I have with Dynasty Plate Helm is, that it feels like an incomplete item. It doesn't have a T3 version or a passive either. The stat spread also irritates me, why penetration instead of something like health? Then I could see it being used for tanks.

    Generally many T2 items are unfavored for T3 ones, but Atlanta's bow is being buffed next patch and Glad shield is something they at least attempted to buff.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoIdschuss View Post
    The issue I have with Dynasty Plate Helm is, that it feels like an incomplete item. It doesn't have a T3 version or a passive either. The stat spread also irritates me, why penetration instead of something like health? Then I could see it being used for tanks
    Well, it's supposed to be a bridge item. A cheap item you pick up early to get online faster, but that you will sell late game for a stronger full T3 item.

    It used to be pretty popular among mages, since it was cheap power and pen which meant you didn't need to rush Obs Shard (2150g)

    Though, it's also not helped by the most recent iteration of Celestial Legion Helm.

    CLH used to at one point be 60 power 60 phys prot and an anti-crit passive, then it turned into a weird reverse Lotus Crown with 60 power, 30 phys prot and a passive that gave I believe it was 20 Mag/Phys power to allies when you healed them, now it's 60 power, 40 phys prots and a passive that stacks up a BUNCH of phys prots (Which decays when hit)

    CLH isn't even all THAT much more expensive either, as it's still fairly cheap at 2050g but yeah, it provides significantly more power (60 vs 45), has more base prots (40 vs 35), has 20 MP5 on it (Better sustain means it's a nicer early game item) and then the passive grants up to 50 extra power and is basically designed to stop physical burst damage.

    But yeah, bridge items as a whole aren't in the best spot these days, it's just too easy to utilize big expensive items that have efficient T2 items. The only one seeing someone decent usage is Glad Shield and to an extent Ichaival. Well, Stone of Binding too, but that's less of a bridge item as it's oft kept even in 6 slot situations because it scales into late game nicely (Since AoE 15 pen gets better when you're teamfighting so all 5 people on your team are benefiting)

    Silverbranch Bow, Asi, Doom Orb and Dynasty Plate Helm are kind of all just left out...

    I do see some Asi's though, it's just often awkward to put in a build. Since with no power on the item, you want some power first (Because going attack speed first item is bad... People need to stop going Ody bow 1st item and sucking hard...) but that generally leaves you with Trans or Devo's and with Devo's you no longer care to pick up Asi as you have lifesteal while if you go Trans you're often focusing more on abilities so Asi isn't useful to you... So, it's not that the item needs help, it's just that your 1st item power boosts don't mesh well with it (Now, if Shifter's Shield was a more viable alternative... You might get some basic attack builds go Shifters > Asi and then dominate their lane with that massive power spike of power, attack speed, lifesteal and pen without any time spent stacking)
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

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    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    I do see some Asi's though, it's just often awkward to put in a build. Since with no power on the item, you want some power first (Because going attack speed first item is bad... People need to stop going Ody bow 1st item and sucking hard...) but that generally leaves you with Trans or Devo's and with Devo's you no longer care to pick up Asi
    In fact, Fully stacked Devo's AND Asi makes for a pretty sick lifesteal with some pen and attack speed too.

    Anway, I wondered who could use T2 items well? Maybe late game characters that strugge early? Or generally hunters to improve their bad early game? However, that might just delay the time till you get your late build..

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoIdschuss View Post
    Anway, I wondered who could use T2 items well? Maybe late game characters that strugge early? Or generally hunters to improve their bad early game? However, that might just delay the time till you get your late build..
    It's often matchup dependent.

    Like, early-mid game gods can go for these bridge items to further enhance their early game pressure and try to snowball. For example, a god like Anhur might grab an early Asi or Ichaival and look to bully out a late game hunter such as Artemis or Chronos and ride that advantage into invading the purple/red buffs and getting gold fury control.

    The flip side is late game gods trying to stem the bleeding of an aggressive comp, where going for a slow build will just lose you the game before you even finish stacking because you just need to become somewhat effective as soon as you can.
    Preferred Gods:
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Some1Guy's Avatar
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    The number one problem that makes tons of these deffensive items simply not workable into a build.

    Which is a single stat.
    On a single item.
    That makes many many other deffensive items simply not workable into a build.

    The stat is 300 mana.

    On a anti physical damage piece of armor known as ...

    Breast Plate of Valor
    65 physical protection
    300 mana
    10 mps
    20% cdr


    You cant work in anything odd with it cause its the odd ball itself.


    It's nearly a mage item, If you changed that 65 phys protection to magic power i bet it would become a must have mage item right off the bat. For 2300 gold... every mage and his brother would buy it.


    For a mages build they get Chronos a perfect mage 20 cdr item that is expensive.

    For a damage class build Jotuuns wrath its not too bad, the 150 mana here kinda stinks too, but its got the penn and power so those stats offset it and make it ok for the price, its not really cheap or super expensive.

    For a defense class build though you get crappy Breast Plate of Valor ... its a cheap item and has Cheap throw away stats.

    This item's 300 mana stat is low priority for a tank class.
    This items 10 mps stat is low priority for a tank class.
    This items 65 physical protection is outclassed by other items for a tank class.
    This items 20 cdr might let you work in something else if you now were not missing...
    ...
    hp hps, magical deffense, ccr, a good survival effect or even a aura for the team.
    Cooldown itself isn't priority number 1 for a tank.
    If your a cruddy attack tank you don't get damage or penn so its not even good for them.

    It screws up your ability to pick up other items because its a cheap subpar piece of junk.
    The problem is most every other defense item gets hp or hps or some useful effect except this.

    This is a neccessity item for a tank in order to fit in other stuff so it should be expensive and good but its a cheap item because its got basically a bunch of mage stats. 65 phys protection is needed ussually later then magical protection and there are much better phys armors then this. By the time you can afford to put this on the mana is not as big a concern nothing you use will turn the mana into a protection or hp. The Mps is already handled by the magic protection armor so now the 10mps is irrelivant by the time you get it.

    Whats this leave you.

    Buying junk early that risks you being mage food or buying a junky item late game when it wont hurt as much to buy it ? Well then that sort of defeats the whole purpose of making other builds work when its a late game item that you needed to buy specific stuff to make up for you buying it later on ?

    Your taking a item that will get you 20 cdr but its sole remaining stat that is useful is sub par and means you lack both hp and protection other armors give.

    In buying this. You are put back in your choices of what to buy to go with it.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    In short its a piece of junk that has a low price because its basically junk for most tanks.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    Tanks in most cases would need to get it to make odd builds work, but its stats are crappy for a tank.

    This item should be more expensive like chronos.
    It should offer good primary tank stats not mage stats with the 20 cdr.

    Then you could try to fit in some of these more specific items that you simply cant even contemplate useing atm. 20 cdr shouldn't be on a cheap item anyways its something you want to keep to work other builds together not have to toss to get rid of the rest of its garbage stats.


    Switch the the cdr over to oni hunters garb make it a non cheap price. Thats the reason the other armor there is picked ... that's part of the reason oni's isn't picked no cdr at all.

    Why does physical armor give mana and mps and magical give hp and mps and in much more abundant amounts.
    Last edited by Some1Guy; 08-07-2018 at 11:09 AM.

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    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some1Guy View Post
    For a defense class build though you get crappy Breast Plate of Valor ... its a cheap item and has Cheap throw away stats.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    In short its a piece of junk that has a low price because its basically junk for most tanks.
    You wut m8?

    Breastplate of Valor is the single strongest defensive item in the game, it has perfect stats and is borderline OP because of how much it just dominates over every other physical defence item and gives such perfect stats that it's rushed by everyone in the solo lane much to the detriment of any physical god there (Because there isn't an equally OP mag prot item)

    65 Phys prots is very nice
    300 mana and 10 MP5 is AMAZING for tanks that oft need to use their abilities for wave clear and their general schtick is live a long time in fights, which means you need mana to keep using skills for a long time. This item alone helps alleviate any pressure on you from not being able to secure blue buffs.
    20% CDR - That's just amazing. Like, literally, any item with 20% CDR is god tier. That's what happened with Shield of Regrowth when that was 20% CDR, it was almost universally picked even though its stats are bad with just health and HP5/MP5.

    More skills, especially more ults, is really good.

    BoV is just so good it really frustrates me when the enemy team is more magical heavy and so I can't rush it first item and instead have to settle for one of the vastly inferior in comparison magical protection items.
    Preferred Gods:
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    Senior Member Honoured SquireAngel's Avatar
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    BoV is a hands down dominate item in solo, right beside glad shield. It gives 20% cdrs, which is HUGE, and the mp and mp5 mean more abilities more often. I will say that for a support, it's not the best, as it doesn't have the EHP or auras you would want, but if you can build selfish, it's a great item even then. Can you say more Geb shields?

  10. #10
    The Mad Hatter Prestigious Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireAngel View Post
    BoV is a hands down dominate item in solo, right beside glad shield. It gives 20% cdrs, which is HUGE, and the mp and mp5 mean more abilities more often. I will say that for a support, it's not the best, as it doesn't have the EHP or auras you would want, but if you can build selfish, it's a great item even then. Can you say more Geb shields?
    I'd probably personally rate it higher than auras on supports. But then again, outside of early game (When supports don't have any items complete because they don't get farm...) how much do I honestly care about 15 prots from an aura... (10 prots after an Exe stacked up on you... 0 prots against a Spear of the Magus...)

    More CC and more ults = Far less damage to the team than those prots in addition to allowing for more set up to secure kills and other utility such as more Geb shields, more Khepri suns for the huge damage reduction (Also more Khepri ults), more time in Fafnir's useful form, more Ares ults, more Athena ults, more Sylvanus wisps...

    It's only real downside is if you're rotating to mid lane before 3rd item, you won't have any mag prots if you've rushed it. But that's easily solved by going Boots > Thebes > BoV so you get your 60 all prots and 300 health from the early Thebes and then pick up the nice BoV to boost your phys def to shut down Hunter and Assassins focusing you while also letting you tank minions, objectives and structures.

    With still the option to go for the more useful late game auras like Shogun's Kusari or Witchblade later.

    Like, I'd say a good support build would be like CDR Boots > Thebes > BoV > Shoguns (Now at 40% CDR) > Stone of Binding > Witchblade/Pestilence/Emperor's Armor/Stone of Gaia/Winged Blade (Depends on what you feel you need at that point)

    Of course, with some shifting around as necessary such as getting Pesti early vs healing comps. Or changing boots if you're going Witch so you don't overcap CDR.

    But yeah, the item is pretty much god tier in solo lane and by no means trash. Heck, it's also highly sought after by junglers that are building bruiser (Such as Guardian/Warrior jungles)
    Preferred Gods:
    Aphrodite, Awilix, BAEllona, Da Ji, Discordia, Fenrir, Janus, Jing Bae, Nike, Nox, Skadi, Sol and The Morrigan.

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