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Thread: Another "Nerf Loki" post

  1. #11
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Yeah, no idea. It must be one of those great mysteries, like Black Library in 40k.

  2. #12
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    Generally, the point is that I think there should be more ways of countering Loki's one-shotting capability for mages directly
    Well, the thing is, there's already TONS of ways for countering Loki's one-shotting by mages.

    It's just that you choose not to use them.

    Because "then I risk being useless for my team". Despite you also complaining that if you don't do anything against Loki then you get "put into a situation, where I cannot contribute to the teamfight"

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    instead of having to rely heavily on teammates
    Having to rely on teammates? In a TEAM BASED GAME?

    Blasphemy!

    Better nerf everything because if you can't go Rambo and solo it then it's "Boring" and "Lacks counterplay"!

    /s
    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    I never asked for this specific nerf, which You somehow missed.
    I didn't miss it.

    It just doesn't negate the fact that literally, the only proposition you've made in the thread is a direct nerf.

    That's asking for a nerf. You even call it a nerf when you just said "The example of a nerf i gave"

    You even have the gall to get mad at me for assuming that you're asking for a nerf: "Unfortunately, over half of Your post is built over a false assumption that I'm asking to nerf him."

    WHEN YOU LITERALLY ASKED FOR A NERF IN A THREAD CALLED "Nerf Loki"

    The only line in this entire thread made by you that hasn't been focused around nerfing Loki or how strong Loki is, has been the last line in the original post where you mention a rework.

    But you never gave an example of a rework. You gave an example of a direct nerf. If your suggestion was "Add the delay to his damage so you can aegis is, BUT..." and then also gave a possible example of something else that would make such a change not a direct nerf then you'd actually have a point in railing me for assuming that you're asking for a nerf. But that was not the case, you asked for a nerf, I assumed you asked for a nerf because I'm not clairvoyant and I can only read what you actually write which was you giving a "Possible solution" which is a direct nerf.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    No, I do not think he is overpowered.
    Could have fooled me with how you wrote in the OP, talking about how strong he is - Also, with the asking for a nerf on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    I'd probably need at least 2 high-prot items, probably even 3
    You actually don't.

    Heck, you don't even need to play careful or build any defences at all. Like I stated in my original reply (Which I think you skipped over because you think it doesn't apply to you, the person complaining about how dealing with Loki is either getting rekt by him so hard you can't contribute to teamfights or building so defensively so as to be useless to your team...) it's all a matter of stopping his early snowball.

    If you and your team don't play recklessly within the first like 5-10 minutes of the game, it's hilariously easy to stop a Loki from getting big and that results in him getting really far behind. Since, Loki players pick Loki to stab people. This means they put all their attention in trying to get kills, at the cost of farming waves. If you prevent him from getting free kills early, he falls behind and becomes literally useless.

    Building defences is merely an option in case he does start to get a few kills, or if he works in tandem with other players (So stuff like raw health is generally quite beneficial and quite easy to get as a Mage due to having several high power items with decent health on such as Warlock's Staff, Gem of Isolation, Ethereal Staff, Rod of Asclepius)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    This is a nuisance on Assault, where early on Loki can hold his tower alone against 2-3 players (obviously case dependent)
    So can... Like every mage?

    Mages have amazing wave clear and pushing into them in Assault is generally impossible because they evaporate waves and do so from too far back for most engage tools to be effective...

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    The point is, I don't think he needs to be "Nerfed".
    Then why did you propose a nerf to him then?

    You could have made your point that Loki is irritating to play against, without proposing a nerf to him. By, you know, just detailing the reasons why he's annoying (For example, his stealth that is hard to counterplay because only hard CC will get him out of it, the stun on his ult that sets up time for him to land some burst damage before you can react, the fact that his ult has no telegraph even without him being stealthed etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    Hope I clarified things
    You have. You eventually directly said that you would like Loki to see some sort of non-specific change because he is irritating to deal with.
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  3. #13
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Man, You are literally ignoring every sentence I wrote that contradicts any of Your opninions about my post. Literally. You are only adressing those few quotes which actually make my post look like You think the meaning of it is, without ever taking a look, or adressing any others. I don't even know what Your point is at the moment - are You trying to convince me that I'm wrong in what I said? Or rather just proving that Your misunderstanding of the meaning of my OP was 100% justified?
    If it's the latter, then I already said I might have worded myself poorly, so there's no need to try and convince me to something that I already agreed with.

    Examples:
    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    But you never gave an example of a rework. You gave an example of a direct nerf. If your suggestion was "Add the delay to his damage so you can aegis is, BUT..." and then also gave a possible example of something else that would make such a change not a direct nerf then you'd actually have a point in railing me for assuming that you're asking for a nerf. But that was not the case, you asked for a nerf, I assumed you asked for a nerf because I'm not clairvoyant and I can only read what you actually write which was you giving a "Possible solution" which is a direct nerf.
    That suggests that You are justifying Your misunderstanding. In case You're already searching for Your battle axe, gotta agree, that might have been poor coomunication on my side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    So can... Like every mage?

    Mages have amazing wave clear and pushing into them in Assault is generally impossible because they evaporate waves and do so from too far back for most engage tools to be effective...
    On the other hand, here it looks like You are trying to convince me that pointing out how Loki can stall the lane in assault is dumb, cause he's not the only one to do it, thus trying to prove me wrong... But I already stated it in the same post that I'm well aware of the fact that it's quite common...
    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    Not like he's the only one to do so, but it's just one of his irritating properties, whereas most other gods have only a few (IMO)
    You literally just ignored the meaning of what I wrote, and took only what You needed for Your... accusations, for a lack of better word.

    But right there, here's a quote from my post which was directly before the sentence You quoted, putting it completely out of it's context:
    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    For example, He Bo can easily one-shot me if he gets the opportunity to place his 3 behind me (thus throwing me closer to him), punishing me for being out of position, but he cannot efficiently one-shot minion wave from safety while stalling it out of tower's range like Loki can. This is a nuisance on Assault, where early on Loki can hold his tower alone against 2-3 players (obviously case dependent)
    This wasn't an argument about how OP Loki is - which is what You clearly wanted it to look like - but a comparison of gods' irritating properties.

    Unfortunately - as proved by the case of lane clearing argument - You are not interested in what I have to say unless You disagree with any part of it. As such, I need to assume that what I thought was only poor wording on my side, is also You being unable to view my post without extremely obvious bias.
    Thus, I see no point in conducting this discussion, unless You provide me with clear explanation of two core subjects:
    First off, I need to actually know what are You trying to prove, in order to have any kind of discussion. Second off, I need an explanation on the lane stalling case, where You not only ingored two out of three sentences in a paragraph, but also called me out for not taking into account something that You yourself chose not to read

    Otherwise, we would be just wasting each others' time, and there is no point in doing that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chosen KAKLAW's Avatar
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    Just nerf Chang'e.

  5. #15
    Member Follower GoIdschuss's Avatar
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    Honestly though, if Loki is so bad, why does he sit on a solid 57% winrate in Diamond? Where as in Bronze it's only 46%

  6. #16
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoIdschuss View Post
    Honestly though, if Loki is so bad, why does he sit on a solid 57% winrate in Diamond? Where as in Bronze it's only 46%
    Winrate doesn't correspond to viability. People pick him in Diamond because they're comfortable with it and their teams are gonna be coordinated enough to carry his ass.
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  7. #17
    Banned Worshipper Schimeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post

    Seriously, Loki is the literal worst god in the entire game.


    Okay, so I'm guessing and assuming that you've met only really bad loki players and you can't put yourself in the OP's shoes.
    he's not the worst god in the entire game, like what?...

  8. #18
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schimeon View Post
    Okay, so I'm guessing and assuming that you've met only really bad loki players and you can't put yourself in the OP's shoes.
    he's not the worst god in the entire game, like what?...
    Anyone who thinks Loki is even remotely viable either doesn't fight players who know how to counter him, or they don't know how to counter him themselves.
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  9. #19
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schimeon View Post
    Okay, so I'm guessing and assuming that you've met only really bad loki players and you can't put yourself in the OP's shoes.
    he's not the worst god in the entire game, like what?...
    He is the worst god in the entire game.

    What does he do? He bursts a single squishy target and... Split push?

    What can literally every other Assassin in the entire game do while also providing multiple other things too? Burst a single squishy target.

    Even the OP mentions that he can build to shut down that SINGLE thing that Loki does.

    The only reason why Loki is even notable is that he does his thing in a frustrating way by the nature of how he pops out of nowhere and deletes you if you're squishy/low life.
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  10. #20
    Junior Member Cupidhead Jakxcombat's Avatar
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    Upon reading this I guess I'm a bit confused. The core of the argument is that loki can 100-0 you instantly which is true but at the same time there are plenty of gods that do the same thing? Thanatos you just ult on someone and press 1, Daji works almost the same as loki in a way, ne zha one sash and you're done, etc. I guess I see how it seems like he's the worst but as someone who plays loki and plays against loki there are tons of ways to counter him. Also if you're having problems fighting him, just play as him it seems like it should be easy but it's harder then you would think to play him without feeding uncontrollably and you can see what his weaknesses are.

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