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Thread: Another "Nerf Loki" post

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Another "Nerf Loki" post

    Disclaimer: explanation why "git gud" is not enough of a solution is at the end of the post.

    Introduction:
    Often playing mages in casual modes (Joust, Arena, etc.) I find it hard to survive against Loki all-in on my own. Obviously, with recent Book of the Dead... buff, this might become manageable, but it's still not a good option - the book by itself is rarely enough, with Beads/Aegis often being needed as well. Obviously, the longer the game goes on, the less effective they are, since later on both the relics and Book have roughly double the cooldown oh Loki's ultimate.
    I often spot Loki players who are willing to die to take out me (or other major damage dealer). It's a good trade, since then it's 4v4, but their team still has all of their ADCs/Mages, the real teamfigt damage dealers. Comes out, unsurprisingly, extremely effective.

    Being reliant on teammates to save me isn't good enough. It requires well-coordinated teammates - which just doesn't happen often, since it's more of a casual game - and still fails late-game, where their reaction simply won't be quick enough.
    As such, I'd ask the Hi-Rez team to give me (and other players who find themselves in similar spot) more means of countering such playstyle.
    My example: giving Loki's ultimate a short (~0,5s) delay before dealing actual damage and stun - effectively requiring only Aegis, if one has good reflexes.
    Obviously, that is just one of many possible solutions, and I'm not the one to judge whether it's a good one or not. It's just an example.

    Why "Git gud" isn't a solution:
    I play this game casually, just like most of my friends. I play it for fun. As You can imagine, being put into a situation, where I cannot contribute to the teamfight makes it pointless for me to play the game.
    Yes, I can avoid dying with relics. But I will only have them up once per three encounters. Then, I can also play very carefully and counterbuild - but then I risk being useless for my team - we can't always choose when we engage and when we don't; such is the nature of this game. Also, building one counter-item is rarely enough, since Loki's build usually involves lots of penetration by default.
    Also, the fact that one person is can ruin the experience for entire enemy team (instead of casual play, we immediately need to go tryhard - which just contradicts the idea of having fun) just doesn't sounds right. Yes, other gods can do that as well. But all others not only need highly skilled player to threaten Your victory alone, but also do not need entire enemy team to counterplay in order for their efforts to fail.

    Thanks for reading. Hope You have sth more to say than just whining bout Your forums bingo.
    Also don't get me wrong - I can counter Loki, not saying he is overpowered. But being forced to have full awareness of my surroundings when I just want a casual game simply drains the fun.

    I made this post for the sole purpose of counting as a vote for Loki rework, if Hi-Rez ever considers it, and bases their decision on community feedback.

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    New Member Cupidhead erevesper's Avatar
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    Have you tried buying Mantle of Discord against him?

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Yes, and it often works well, but just as often it might not work at all (cooldown; Loki is not the only threat in the game). As I said, it's not like Loki is some kind of my ultimate bane; it's just often entirely antifun to play against him.

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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    How to nerf Loki:



    Seriously, Loki is the literal worst god in the entire game. All he brings to teamfights is jumping on a squishy target and bursting them down. But, if people bothered to properly change their builds to counter the main threats to them, he'd never function. Getting health and physical protections stops Loki from being able to 100-0% you. Which allows you to then turn on him and blow him up (Given he'd have popped all his kit in order to try and burst you down)

    Even more so with Relics like Bracer of Undoing which just nullifies a large portion of his alpha strike burst. Then something like Spectral Armour will deal with those Crit builds that some Loki players go for.

    For mages you also have Celestial Legion Helm which allows you to get a TON of physical protections without losing too much damage due to its 60 power. Jade Emperor's Crown is also notable, since it will give substantial phys prots and reduce Loki's power.

    For health there's Warlock's Staff which can provide a large amount of health as well as power or you can pick up a Relic Dagger for a large boost of health and shorter relic cooldowns.

    All it takes it to not feed him early and he becomes literally useless, because a Loki that's behind can't kill people and that's all he can do. Like, it's possible to still go full glass cannon and he still won't be able to burst you down because without that early feed he just won't have the damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    I made this post for the sole purpose of counting as a vote for Loki rework
    This is a sensible, if wishful comment. Loki does need a rework. Mostly because he's absolute garbage outside of pub stomping in certain game modes. A few people agree that he needs a rework (As noted in a thread I made a while back) but it all comes down to will Hi-Rez actually do it?

    We can only hope that he does receive a rework that makes him less annoying but more useful.
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Mate, while I appreciate Your tips, the fact is that You told me nothing new. I already knew all of these items and used them in certain situations; Cel. Legion helm is one of my favourites in particular, especially on gods like Hel etc.
    I think that You just read the title of my post and jumped into explaining scrub how to counter Loki. That is not needed, if I really want then I can just counterbuild and counterplay, and he will never get me. The problem is, that forces me into entirely boring playstyle, as well as diminishing my potential in teamfights.
    Or alternatively I can just play Geb/Athena/Kali/Nox and make Loki's day a fucking nightmare, literally. But this is not the point here.
    Apologies for such words, but I think You need to read my post again, since You didn't understand it AT ALL.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    The thread's title seems to be acknowledging that Loki doesn't need to be nerfed, but instead reworked so that he's actually not garbo. If you have a good team, then Loki will be useless against you. I know you acknowledge this in the OP, but it must be said that the game shouldn't be balanced around incompetent players who don't know how to protect their squishies from the worst god in the game.
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    That is not needed, if I really want then I can just counterbuild and counterplay, and he will never get me.
    Then this thread is pointless. You're asking to nerf a god that you're saying you can completely shut down.

    All he brings is damage, you're saying increase the counterplay to that 1 thing he does because you can't be bothered to use the already available tools that you're saying you KNOW will already counter that 1 thing he does?

    In what scenario in your mind do you think that's a worth making a thread about?

    That's literally "Nerf this god because I can't be bothered to negate him completely"

    The problem is, that forces me into entirely boring playstyle, as well as diminishing my potential in teamfights.
    I'm sorry, were you not the one complaining about how Loki players will dive onto you/a squishy on your team and delete them, even at the costs of their lives and how you don't find it fun to not be able to participate in teamfights because of this?

    So which is it? Is it too boring to lower your capacity in teamfights slightly or is it too annoying to not get to participate in teamfights because a Loki insta-gibbed you?

    This sounds again like trying to have your cake and eat it. It's like if someone made a thread about nerfing a healer because "It's boring to buy anti-heal and have diminished capacity in teamfights"

    Or alternatively I can just play Geb/Athena/Kali/Nox and make Loki's day a fucking nightmare, literally. But this is not the point here.
    Then, pray tell, what IS the point?

    Since I read your post and it's all whining about how OP Loki is because he just insta-kills you with no recourse and you have to be a MLG pro-5 stack team in order to counterplay him (You don't. Heck, you don't even need to be that good or even build to counter him... I do it all the time making Loki's rage quit in Arena/Clash because they go like 1-9 by 10 minutes because it's as simple as stick with someone and then blow him up when he does something)

    Except for the last line, where you mention about wanting a rework for him. Which, is as I said, an admirable point of view, since Loki does need one given how trash he is.

    However, your entire post hasn't actually detailed anything in regards to a rework for him. All it is, is you complaining about how counterbuilding sucks and he's too OP because he bursts you down more often than you can completely negate him in a normal build. With a suggestion for a plain nerf thrown in too.

    You haven't talked about what specifically should be reworked about him, nor really addressed how his viability (lel) might be impacted by any changes he receives.

    Apologies for such words, but I think You need to read my post again, since You didn't understand it AT ALL.
    I read your post. Numerous times. It's still 90% complaining that Loki is too OP and he bursts you down more often than you can negate his character completely with Beads/Aegis/Book of the Dead.

    With a slight mention to being able to counterbuild, but not wanting to because you might become "Useless" to your team (Pro tip: You're useless if you're dead. Which is what you're complaining about...)

    So, I thought you might like to know about counterbuild items that don't impact your damage so much, since you think that counterbuilding a Loki seems to make you become "Useless" for your team... (While again, it stands to reason that you do nothing when you're dead. Which you even mention by the statement "As You can imagine, being put into a situation, where I cannot contribute to the teamfight makes it pointless for me to play the game.")

    If I've missed something and you're not just whining about how Loki kills you (The literally only thing he can do and ONLY against squishy players that don't build health or prots) and that the game is balanced in that you can't just negate a character completely with Aegis/Beads and a single defensive proc and suggesting an outright nerf to the worst god in the game (Which apparently you're saying you can easily counterbuild and deal with, which suggests that you know this)

    Then, please, enlighten me.
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    Member Follower Luxeternam's Avatar
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    I made this post a couple of days ago and it completly sums up how i feel about loki


    Loki doesnt need a nerf. he needs either some tweaks to his kit or a partial rework. I used to main loki untill hi rez ruined him and made him a zero skill zero complexity god. Sufice to say I am not a fan of the current way he plays AT ALL. I dont think he is fun to play, he's not fun to have on your team and he's not fun to play against. Say what you will, but arena is the most played game mode in smite, far more so than conquest, and loki has allways been mostly played in arena. In arena, you dont even have to do anything wrong, he can just dead you no matter what you do right out of the blue if you play anything other than a warrior or a guardian. thats not fun to pilot, and certainly not fun to play against. His kit is horribly bland, there are no tricks you can do with him, loki can only be played ONE way, and that way is just skilless. There is almost no amount of thought whatsoever that goes into playing him.

    Before when i mained him he could be played 2 ways. first is the way everyone is familiar with. The second however was based on his auto attack chain. his 3 didnt used to reset his attack chain and would stack WITH his attack chain damage multiplier which could make you do super massively high crits (almost ne zha levels of high) if timed correctly. The latter took actual skill and thought to pull off due to having to time his 3 on the last hit in his chain and also always striking an enemy from behind so you always crit. When hi rez got rid of that i quit loki and i rarely touch him anymore.

    Loki needs something to add a little complexity to the way you can play him.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead NeutralEffect's Avatar
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    Sorry to say it, but You are prejudiced. I considered detailed explanation of why playing against Loki is a terrible experience for me necessary, as I'd have to give it sooner or later in this thread, so might just put it straight into the OP. Although addmittedly, it might have looked like complaining about how terribly OP Loki is. It isn't the case, though.

    Generally, the point is that I think there should be more ways of countering Loki's one-shotting capability for mages directly, instead of having to rely heavily on teammates and preventing any opportunities for him to actually pull it off. As said multiple times, in casual games that can be the ultimate buzzkill.
    The example of a nerf i gave was just that, an example. I never asked for this specific nerf, which You somehow missed. As I said, I think You were just too convinced I'm another scrub complaining about nerfing Loki to see that I didn't actually propose such a change:
    Obviously, that is just one of many possible solutions, and I'm not the one to judge whether it's a good one or not. It's just an example.
    Unfortunately, over half of Your post is built over a false assumption that I'm asking to nerf him. As such, I'm not going to respond to most of it, since now when it's clear what I meant (or will be when You finish reading this), it shouldn't be needed.

    Now most important of all, the problem I have with him is that majority of the time, I'd need to switch to a boring and overly careful playstyle, which simply isn't fun. No, I do not think he is overpowered. I simply think he is irritating to play against, more than any other god (maybe except Sylvanus, Agni or a really good Janus), and playing against a good Loki drains the fun from the game completely for me. And it just so happens that I don't get paid for playing SMITE, so I do it mostly for... fun.

    Yeah, as stated I am able to counterbuild. But in order not to care about Loki as much, I'd probably need at least 2 high-prot items, probably even 3 - because I won't always be at full health when he decides to go in (actually, that would be vast minoroty of the cases). With just partial physical protections, I still need to be overly careful, which I think is wrong, since I saw only a few other gods punishing me for being out of position that easily. But these generally have some other weaspots, and are less irritating overall.
    For example, He Bo can easily one-shot me if he gets the opportunity to place his 3 behind me (thus throwing me closer to him), punishing me for being out of position, but he cannot efficiently one-shot minion wave from safety while stalling it out of tower's range like Loki can. This is a nuisance on Assault, where early on Loki can hold his tower alone against 2-3 players (obviously case dependent), if he has enough Mana and HP. Not like he's the only one to do so, but it's just one of his irritating properties, whereas most other gods have only a few (IMO).

    The point is, I don't think he needs to be "Nerfed". I think he is too irritating to play against and drains the fun from the game for me. And there are many ways to change that, nerf is just one of them. The others include specific counter items, rework of Loki, rework of some game mechanics etc. But touching Loki alone is the best, since it will impact only him, instead of entire meta. Well, unless he gets a rework and becomes godly OP. Simply put, it's a poke at Hi-Rez towards balancing the situation of this extremely imbalanced god, who is useless in high-tier matches, overpowered for newer players, and ultimately irritating to play against at all levels, in all modes (possibly excluding conquest, IMO).

    Except for the last line, where you mention about wanting a rework for him. Which, is as I said, an admirable point of view, since Loki does need one given how trash he is.

    However, your entire post hasn't actually detailed anything in regards to a rework for him. All it is, is you complaining about how counterbuilding sucks and he's too OP because he bursts you down more often than you can completely negate him in a normal build. With a suggestion for a plain nerf thrown in too.

    You haven't talked about what specifically should be reworked about him, nor really addressed how his viability (lel) might be impacted by any changes he receives.
    Yes, I didn't say anything specific about reworking him, and there's a solid reason for that. Simply put, SMITE community (obvious example: DukeSloth) had multiple ideas for Loki rework to make him both viable and less irritating to play against at the same time. Taking into consideration than I'm more of a casual player, I don't think my idea for a rework would be better than those of more experienced players, not even to mention Hi-Rez actually taking a look at it. As such, I didn't want to waste my time writing, and Your time reading. I also didn't want to start any discussions regarding this subject, since that was not the point of my post.

    I think we both might just have terribly misunderstood each other. Hope I clarified things without being too rude.
    Apologies for the wall of text.
    Last edited by NeutralEffect; 08-01-2018 at 05:02 PM.

  10. #10
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeutralEffect View Post
    Unfortunately, over half of Your post is built over a false assumption that I'm asking to nerf him.
    *reads title*

    Gee, I wonder why he would ever think that...
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