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Thread: How to stop range from being OP vs melee ( example poking titan vs heal fountain)

  1. #11
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiagirl View Post
    I think the problem is more how the game is balanced. Hunters usually end up being the strongest class in the late game, and I've never understood why they thought it would be a good idea to make ranged characters stronger than the melee ones as the latter has to risk much more to get their damage in than the former does. Yes assassins start off much stronger, but many of them fall off hard by late game and almost none of them can go toe to toe with a fully built hunter. Mages have the strongest abilities in the game which for the most part hit from quite the distance, whereas most melee class abilities are close ranged and hit for far less. I get that hunters and mages are squishier than warriors or guardians, but if they're going to hit that much harder then they don't need the range on top of it. My personal opinion is that the hardest hitting class in any game should always be a melee class, as they generally have to risk it all and go all in to confirm damage instead of ranged just shooting you to death before you can even reach them.
    Well, Hunters are the strongest class late game, because they can build crit and can go full glass cannon and still be able to put out sustained damage.

    Theoretically, Assassins can match many Hunters late game prowess by building the same items. However, their close range nature means they can't apply that damage since they just get blown up... But honestly, Mercury is probably the strongest late game character, with huge crits due to his passive and a massive attack speed steroid that makes most Hunters weak at the knees just thinking about.

    In addition, this "Falling off late" idea comes back to crits and just how amazingly well they scale. A late game crit build can be rocking 85+ crit chance with 30% bonus damage, so most basic attacks will be doing 230% damage. With ~300 power that's basics of ~360 so you're looking at ~828 damage before protections. Which is about the same as a good scaling ability, if not more (If we take a really powerful ability such as Da Ji's One Thousand Cuts, which does over the 4 attacks a total of 460 + 120%. So with ~300 power that's about 820 damage before protections)

    Without crits in the mix, Assassins stay more relevant damage wise (Also, Ability Hunters like Neith, Ullr, Chiron etc) since then you're only looking at about 400ish damage before protections from a high power build with Qin's per basic, which will deal more sustained damage, but abilities will still burst way harder.

    As far as mages go, they only have their abilities, unlike Assassins whom still get physical basics with 100% scaling and so can left click pretty well even with an ability focused build (You'll still have plenty of power and pen). In addition, it's a bit of a trade off. Mages tend to be immobile and lack defences (Unlike Hunters whom often have a mobility skill...) while Assassins tend to have a lot of mobility. So it becomes a game of cat and mouse, where the Mage is trying to blow up the enemy team before the Assassin reaches them and deletes them.

    But yeah, it ends up being crit is kind of busted and classes have been designed for specific roles with items following suit.

    Unlike other MOBA's the ADC's don't get defence with their offense items. Supports are Tanks. Junglers are basically single target "Mages"...

    Essentially, unless they decide to completely redesign all the items in the game to create a bunch of class specific items, it's going to be a matter of "Whatever a melee can build a Hunter can break". Where the only way I can see a melee ADC being prominent is if they buff Kali to heck so she can just blender everyone while using her ult or if they introduce a really OP god that basically has Vamana's passive on steroids to allow them to get defences while also still having good damage.

    That said... You ever play Crit Thanatos in Arena? That's a melee ADC just slicing people up with massive sustain from your 1 and passive...
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  2. #12
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    An additional thought...

    Is what if ranged gods had a penalty on Lifesteal like how AoE skills only receive 33% effectiveness of lifesteal.

    So that Devo's/Asi on Hunters won't make them super safe by lifestealing a ton on their huge damage they're flinging from afar and thus making Hide of the Nemean Lion/Thorns a more effective deterrent (By making it so that they actually will care about them... Whenever I play Hunter with Devo's I barely even flinch at the sight even with crit builds, since I know they're still going to die well before I do and then I can sustain easily off literally any other target that isn't running reflect damage...)

    Meanwhile, it might open up the potential for melee gods utilizing lifesteal to help prop themselves up in fights. Kind of like how old Soul Eater could be used in certain builds (Especially on Erlang Shen as his doggo allowed him to double proc it at full effectiveness)
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  3. #13
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    IF u read again after fix will make more sense. Range just has it to ez in this game. Melee has to chaise them down and even then some times range can just stand and shoot and do same dmg as melee.
    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    King of the hill objective instead of a titan (always) that can be poked from a safe distance. This change would help melee more that have a disadvantage say for example rank duel.
    ...Nope, still makes no sense. You're still using backwards logic.
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    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    ...Nope, still makes no sense. You're still using backwards logic.
    Sorry have no time to explain to kids. Use imagination or maybe it will come with xp.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Chosen BakaCircle9's Avatar
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    and now they released an assasin with 2 ranged abilities and a huge AoE ability. do you still think ranged gods have some advantage over melee in this game?
    TOP 3 most stupid things i've ever see in this forum:
    she can do 1000 dmg at level 3 by just her 2-and passive
    her 3 should be more like medusa moving backwards movement penalty reduced only by 50%
    Her ult now is her 2 but with lower damage but same cooldown!
    my YouTube channel

  6. #16
    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    and now they released an assasin with 2 ranged abilities and a huge AoE ability. do you still think ranged gods have some advantage over melee in this game?
    Yup those ABILITIES have COOLDOWNS. Hunter/mage Basic attacks is constant dmg from safer distance. Besides you can ez ban 1 god.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Chosen BakaCircle9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    Yup those ABILITIES have COOLDOWNS. Hunter/mage Basic attacks is constant dmg from safer distance. Besides you can ez ban 1 god.
    if anything, mages basic attacks doesn't do the shit, except for like 3 mages. the only real problem here is mage abilities, wich are, what a surprize, have cooldowns aswell.
    TOP 3 most stupid things i've ever see in this forum:
    she can do 1000 dmg at level 3 by just her 2-and passive
    her 3 should be more like medusa moving backwards movement penalty reduced only by 50%
    Her ult now is her 2 but with lower damage but same cooldown!
    my YouTube channel

  8. #18
    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BakaCircle9 View Post
    if anything, mages basic attacks doesn't do the shit, except for like 3 mages. the only real problem here is mage abilities, wich are, what a surprize, have cooldowns aswell.
    Talking about hunters no cd on basic from range.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Chosen BakaCircle9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    Talking about hunters no cd on basic from range.
    hunter class is broken by difinition. they got everything - aa damage, ability damage, cc, mobility, sustain(thanks to itemization), fkn bullshit crit, just everything. it's not about melee vs ranged, it's about hunters vs other classes.
    TOP 3 most stupid things i've ever see in this forum:
    she can do 1000 dmg at level 3 by just her 2-and passive
    her 3 should be more like medusa moving backwards movement penalty reduced only by 50%
    Her ult now is her 2 but with lower damage but same cooldown!
    my YouTube channel

  10. #20
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    Sorry have no time to explain to kids. Use imagination or maybe it will come with xp.
    So you have no reasoning, then. Gotcha.
    I tell people I'm bi, but what I really mean is [B] I O N I C L E



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