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Thread: The Buff then Nerf vicious cycle

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    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    The Buff then Nerf vicious cycle

    1. A god Sucks for a while ( lets say Xbalanque for example) people ask for buffs for a good reason because no one is using him...
    2. Then smite eventually does buff him
    3. Lots of people starts using him
    4. Hirez Nerfs the god again becuase they fear to many people are using him AT THE MOMENT.
    5. Go back to step one.

    Hi rez may not realize the possibility that peple are using the got alot (step 3.) BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T USE HIM IN A LONG TIME
    SO THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THE GOD AGAIN(or testing the god) .Not necessarily because his OP.

    I say dont panic nerf/buff let it sink, let people get bored with the god and go back to another god rotation before doing so many changes. (maybe longer beta not just 2 weeks?)

    Thanks.

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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    1. A god Sucks for a while ( lets say Xbalanque for example) people ask for buffs for a good reason because no one is using him...
    Usually, the buffs are asked not for a good reason. While no-one is using them because the pros aren't using them (Which is a terrible basis for a "Meta" since most pros just stick to their preferred gods and don't look to try anything new unless someone else has success with it).

    Take for example, Skadi. She was considered useless and people constantly asked for buffs for her.

    Then she got buffed, twice. Then everyone realized that she did like infinity damage with her unstoppable doggo and had to get nerfed down to not Baron levels of stupid. So even though her buffs had nothing to do with the aspect that got nerfed, people just didn't realize how strong she was until they started playing her after her buffs.

    Heck, that's not even the only factor at play. For the longest time everyone considered Artemis to be trash (Same as Skadi) since her wave clear nerf. Then with LITERALLY NO CHANGES, after people laughing at anyone who said she was decent, she is now THE premier Hunter (Rivalled only by Chernobog and his stupid ult) and thus is getting nerfed because of how strong she is and has been.

    So yeah... People ask for buffs. The gods don't always actually NEED those buffs, they just need people to actually learn to use the god.

    Or sometimes the nerfs come because the buffs that are given are TOO strong. Raijin comes to mind since after his much needed buffs he became too strong and had to be brought back down to reasonable levels.
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    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Usually, the buffs are asked not for a good reason. While no-one is using them because the pros aren't using them (Which is a terrible basis for a "Meta" since most pros just stick to their preferred gods and don't look to try anything new unless someone else has success with it).

    Take for example, Skadi. She was considered useless and people constantly asked for buffs for her.

    Then she got buffed, twice. Then everyone realized that she did like infinity damage with her unstoppable doggo and had to get nerfed down to not Baron levels of stupid. So even though her buffs had nothing to do with the aspect that got nerfed, people just didn't realize how strong she was until they started playing her after her buffs.

    Heck, that's not even the only factor at play. For the longest time everyone considered Artemis to be trash (Same as Skadi) since her wave clear nerf. Then with LITERALLY NO CHANGES, after people laughing at anyone who said she was decent, she is now THE premier Hunter (Rivalled only by Chernobog and his stupid ult) and thus is getting nerfed because of how strong she is and has been.

    So yeah... People ask for buffs. The gods don't always actually NEED those buffs, they just need people to actually learn to use the god.

    Or sometimes the nerfs come because the buffs that are given are TOO strong. Raijin comes to mind since after his much needed buffs he became too strong and had to be brought back down to reasonable levels.
    Dont think ur helping to stop the cycle here whit ur wall of text.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    Dont think ur helping to stop the cycle here whit ur wall of text.
    >implying this thread is
    I tell people I'm bi, but what I really mean is [B] I O N I C L E



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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    Dont think ur helping to stop the cycle here whit ur wall of text.
    and yet it is the truth

    people on here often ask for buffs/nerfs that aren't always 100% needed

    a prime example of this is Loki. by all means according to this forum, Loki is a horrible monster god who needs to be nerfed into the ground until no one even recognizes him.

    the truth is the opposite. Loki isn't all that great of a god. if you build properly against him and ward, you can minimize or even fully counter all his usefulness.

    people rarely listen to that though, many players in the smite community ignore any advice or information aside from their own, even when presented with the facts and numbers to prove them otherwise.

    Now I will freely admit, there are some circumstances in which Hi-Rez has or is doing what you are saying. Sadly there isn't much of a choice. It is far easier for them to buff/nerf gods rather than items.

    by buffing/nerfing a god, you directly impact that god, but the second you buff/nerf an item...that impacts entire pools of gods. they can't always know with 100% certainty what effects that will have on gods that might have been using those items.

    sometimes nothing happens and the god remains where they are (either prompting a response because the god then needs a buff/nerf) or the god slides into one of the two spots. OP or useless. They then have to either retweak some items they fixed, or look at the god to see how it can be fixed to put it back more towards the middle of the road.

    I don't think any moba team has any idea what balance is, there are always going to be gods that are stupidly over powered, gods that are middle tier, and gods that are beyond trash.

    we make due where we can, and if you have a problem with that, the door is right over there...feel free to let it hit you on the way out
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    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameVeteranAzure View Post
    people on here often ask for buffs/nerfs that aren't always 100% needed

    a prime example of this is Loki. by all means according to this forum, Loki is a horrible monster god who needs to be nerfed into the ground until no one even recognizes him.
    Loki's a funny one, half the forum thinks he's the most OP god to ever exist. The other half thinks he's literally the most worthless god to ever exist.

    Honestly though... He's just poorly designed... Not only does he barely have a "Trickster God" theme, but he has an inherently annoying playstyle (Using a hard to counter stealth skill to appear out of nowhere and burst a single target. Usually one that's already low life and heading back to base until fed enough to 100-0% squishies before they can react)

    I don't think any moba team has any idea what balance is, there are always going to be gods that are stupidly over powered, gods that are middle tier, and gods that are beyond trash.
    Balance in a MOBA is inherently impossible to attain. Given that there are near infinitesimal numbers of variations of team compositions and item loadouts, that figuring out how to balance everything out equally is just not going to happen.

    Throw in the fact that the "Meta" is shaped, not by the balance team who buff/nerf/rework stuff, but the players themselves.

    Back when I played Dota 2 you could see it every patch. Like, the pro's would all be picking/banning the same handful of heroes day in and day out and that was the meta.

    Then patch day would come and there would be a few heroes that got inconsequential changes (Like 0.0001 more health at max level or something) but it would cause them to appear in the patch notes. Then the pros would go "Oh yeah, they exist!" and they'd become the new meta while all the heroes from the old meta would stop being played at all - Despite nothing actually happening to change the balance of either the "Old" or the "New" meta heroes, other than... Well, people changed what they played.
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    Member Worshipper SquireAngel's Avatar
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    The only way to attain balance would be for hirez to stop all additions to the game, and then it would still take months to attain, broad spectrum balance. Even then, people would complain. As stated before a balance is high impossible to obtain.

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    Honestly you can't achieve perfect balance without really limiting build options....

    If you somehow balance all gods and items, it'd only be while using the 'best' build as otherwise you are weak.... I prefer to be able to be viable with different build styles.

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    Senior Member Infamous Outso187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIGuardian View Post
    1. A god Sucks for a while ( lets say Xbalanque for example) people ask for buffs for a good reason because no one is using him...
    2. Then smite eventually does buff him
    3. Lots of people starts using him
    4. Hirez Nerfs the god again becuase they fear to many people are using him AT THE MOMENT.
    5. Go back to step one.

    Hi rez may not realize the possibility that peple are using the got alot (step 3.) BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T USE HIM IN A LONG TIME
    SO THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN WITH THE GOD AGAIN(or testing the god) .Not necessarily because his OP.

    I say dont panic nerf/buff let it sink, let people get bored with the god and go back to another god rotation before doing so many changes. (maybe longer beta not just 2 weeks?)

    Thanks.
    Let's put this to number examples so maybe you understand. I'm using 0-100 scale. Okay, so let's say god sucks and he's like a 12. Then Hi-rez buffs him, he goes straight to 89. But that's too much so they nerf him a bit, he goes to 54. He was buffed and then nerfed but he is nowhere near to where that 12.

  10. #10
    Member Follower AIGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireAngel View Post
    The only way to attain balance would be for hirez to stop all additions to the game, and then it would still take months to attain, broad spectrum balance. Even then, people would complain. As stated before a balance is high impossible to obtain.
    This is the only person that understand my ORIGINAL post...
    While the rest were negative nancys (impossible so dont even try balbla) This person says stop additions.Yes give time to sync in and people realy explore or get bored whit the new supposed "OP GOD" then see if they still use him after they had their fun. Xbalanque comes to mind.

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