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Thread: Baron's broken ultimate

  1. #11
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Baron's ult has a ton of stuff on it. Like, excessively so.

    First, he becomes CC immune. This isn't uncommon, but it's still a positive effect from the ult.

    He also gets 50% damage reduction. The next comparable skill is Hades ult which only gets him 60/70/80/90/100 protections. 50% DR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100 protections. Especially given that prots can be mitigated with penetration (I.e. About 30% of prots are flat out ignored because Executioner/Titan's Bane/Obsidian Shard which are core in basically every damage dealers build. This is before stuff like support/solo auras to reduce prots, skills that reduce prots, true damage which bypasses prots etc). There is NOTHING to counter damage reduction. Also note, Baron's ult gives 50% DR at rank 1 of his ult, while Hades has to reach level 20 in order to get that 100 prots...

    Then he gets an AoE pull. Again comparable to Hades, but Baron can move while he ults so it's even harder to escape since if you beads and run away he'll run with you and then when beads drops off (Because beads lasts 2 seconds while Baron ult lasts 3.5) you get sucked back in again.

    Then his pull also gets stronger on targets that are above 30 Hysteria. Also note, the ult itself builds 8 Hysteria per hit. It ticks every .33 seconds. That means 1.32 seconds is all it takes for him to get the super suck on you even if he has not landed a single skill on you yet.

    THEN you get that 2 second stun on a single target that gets pulled in. That's 2 seconds at ALL ranks because who tf needs to have their skills scale with levels? Why not just give him everything once he hits level 5 because you can. Fuck it make his ult execute anyone that exists on the map who's below 99% life, including the enemy titan because you can...

    Finally we get to the damage...

    Ticks of 45 + 6% with a maximum of 10 ticks (450 + 60%) though more likely is going to be 1-2 seconds of suck for 3-6 ticks (135 + 18%/270 + 36%)

    420 + 50% on the coffin hit (Soon to be 380 + 50%)

    15% max life on the coffin hit. (Why? Because you can. Apparently)

    Making it approximately 620 + 77% on average. With 15% max health damage.

    ALSO NOTE, this will then get boosted by 25% on targets with max hysteria, which as noted, the ult itself builds 8 hysteria per tick, so throw in some other abilities landing beforehand and you get easy +25% damage on that coffin hit making the average damage 725 + 89% (+15% max health, which is about 300-450 damage for the average healthpool of 2000-3000)

    So, yeah.

    It does a bunch of damage. In my average mage builds I get about 500-600 power (Depending on if I go Book of Fof or not) so that would be approx: 725 + 500*0.89 + 300 = 1470 damage to your average 2000 health character (I.e. Anyone not stacking health), before prots of course.

    It has multiple CC, that you can't beads out of (Because it outlasts Beads and he can move to stop you getting out of the area during the uptime of beads) and no other relic affects it (It's not a slow so Sprint doesn't work, Baron is CC immune so you can't Horrific Emblem to slow him, you can't Bracer out the damage because 2 second stun lol)

    It protects Baron himself immensely, so you can't even burn him down (Even if he didn't get free 50% DR it'd be difficult to burn him down before getting sucked in anyway) - Unlike stuff like Ares ult or Hades ult where a viable option to prevent these high impact ults from being a death sentence for you IS to turn and burn while they channel.

    So yeah, Baron ult is really strong and basically leaves little to no counterplay because it has everything covered. Literally the only option is to be a god with a decent escape that can jump out of it (Without your jump being on CD, for example, to get away from his slow that ignores slow immunity that roots you) or to pop Beads + Aegis together and run into the coffin (Aegis to prevent the 1 billion damage the coffin does and Beads to stop that 2 second stun that would lead to your death anyway if you just Aegis'd alone)

    Which, is not good design...
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  2. #12
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    I'd compare his damage reduction to Chaac, not Hades

  3. #13
    New Member Cupidhead Sephious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saerireth View Post
    Even if he built full cdr and nothing else, there is absolutely no way that this happened. It is a 90 second cooldown.
    And if ur saying that they require no skill to hit, then you obviously have not ever played him.
    No, they're not as hard as nox skillshots, but he's definitely not launching stuff at thoth orb speed
    If you think it's a 90 second cooldown, you obviously haven't played in a game with him.I just played as Baron and used my ult twice within 30 seconds.

  4. #14
    The Mad Hatter Chosen Relanah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    I'd compare his damage reduction to Chaac, not Hades
    Technically, yeah. Chaac also gets 50% DR on his ult.

    Though, I wouldn't really put Chaac's ult in the same sort of category as the likes of Ares, Hades, Zhonger Donger or Sobek.

    Since, while you do dive in and drop the ult as Chaac, either teleporting to his axe or blinking in, as it doesn't provide any CC/damage until it ends it's often feasible to just disengage from him (Unless he's managed to put his slow down first... But that likely means tossing the axe to put down the big pool and then blinking in, which isn't so common)

    Meanwhile stuff like Ares, Hades, Sobek and to an extent Zhong cause instant impact. Ares and Hades provide that instant pulling (Or instant threat of the pull in the case of Ares). Sobek has his slow that he gets during it (Scaling up to 40%). Zhong gets that instant damage as well as the side effect of not disabling the rest of his kit for the duration (So you have the threat of his card, exorcism and his stun)

    Those ults force you to do something about them, you can't just disengage (Aside from Zhong, unless he gets some CC from his kit/Gem of Isolation) and thus you're left with turn and burn even through the bonus defences (60-100 prots on Hades, 30% bonus prots on Sobek and up to 40 prots on Zhong)

    I mean, another ult you can compare Baron's too would be Raijin's. But Raijin gets a ton of range on his for the exchange of -20% speed, making him susceptible to damage but able to use it from backlines. He also has to trade damage for his Fear/Taunt shots (While Baron gets to have his cake and eat it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sephious View Post
    If you think it's a 90 second cooldown, you obviously haven't played in a game with him.I just played as Baron and used my ult twice within 30 seconds.
    It's a 90s base CD, so the best that's possible is 40% CDR with Chronos Pendant for pseudo 50% CDR. Making it 45s CD.

    That said, it often seems like Baron's ult is up more frequently than that in game, possibly just confirmation bias. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out his CD doesn't work properly seeing the number of frequent ults I see from Barons with 0 CDR (I had to actually double check it wasn't one of those 75s CD ults like Ama or Bellona)
    Last edited by Relanah; 07-05-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post



    It's a 90s base CD, so the best that's possible is 40% CDR with Chronos Pendant for pseudo 50% CDR. Making it 45s CD.

    That said, it often seems like Baron's ult is up more frequently than that in game, possibly just confirmation bias. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out his CD doesn't work properly seeing the number of frequent ults I see from Barons with 0 CDR (I had to actually double check it wasn't one of those 75s CD ults like Ama or Bellona)
    Just chronos pendant and 40% would actually make it like 49 seconds(so depending on timing sometimes 48 seconds).

    Of course with a spear of desolation passive and genji's guard passive he could easily shave off more. Perhaps even get it below 40 seconds.

    Twice within 30 seconds in a NORMAL(not motd) game is a lie. I get annoyed when someone tells me I'm cheating for killing them with my ult and then killing them with my ult again when they come back.... Dude your respawn time and walking back up to lane just takes a long time.

  6. #16
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead krazz619's Avatar
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    If you defend Baron's Ultimate in any way, you are part of the cancer that is within Smite lol besides the trash company that owns it

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazz619 View Post
    If you defend Baron's Ultimate in any way, you are part of the cancer that is within Smite lol besides the trash company that owns it
    There's nothing wrong with pointing out when people are lying.... His ult doesn't get used twice within 30 seconds, his cooldown isn't that short.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Honoured Saerireth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPapouille View Post
    if I don't have beads I'm 100% dead, no matter how much magic defense I packed.
    I highly doubt this, but please proceed.


    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Just chronos pendant and 40% would actually make it like 49 seconds(so depending on timing sometimes 48 seconds).

    Of course with a spear of desolation passive and genji's guard passive he could easily shave off more. Perhaps even get it below 40 seconds.
    So basically if you build all cdr and mediocre power.
    In which case my point still stands; there's no way he's doing "every 25 seconds", and if he somehow was, there's no way he'd be pulling that damage off.

    Quote Originally Posted by krazz619 View Post
    If you defend Baron's Ultimate in any way, you are part of the cancer that is within Smite lol besides the trash company that owns it
    And if you're someone who screams about something unnecessary and then ridicule people for proving you wrong, you don't belong on the forums.
    Last edited by Saerireth; 07-06-2018 at 07:43 PM.

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