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Thread: cancel zeus buff?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Prestigious Outso187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galvay View Post
    Don't be ridiculous every (or almost every) Zeus has isolation gem in his build. That results in a sudden slow and death before you can get close enough. especially that through his shield he can channel his chains on a long range, unlike any other god. so basically you are dead before you even hit him.
    And don't really say we blame gods for our losses, as it has nothing to do with that. We just try to realisticly assess his power, and it was already too much.
    When people say "has no cc", they mean character has no hard cc. Slow is soft cc. Also, why the f*** would you build GoI on Zeus?

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    He has the same issues in those modes as Anubis(arguably Anubis might not be considered to hit as large a group but neither is Zeus if you don't group up)...

    He has a horde of allies that can watch his back and CC for him so that he can get off his damage.

    Even for casual players, I'd like to assume balance would at the very least not consider anyone below gold. I say this because the very first time i ever played 10 qualifying matches to get ranked i ended up in diamond(I'm assuming a fluke), 2nd time i was platinum, 3rd time i was gold but with matchmaking considering me platinum(because it shows that now).

    I do not consider myself a great player, but I've never been below gold in my life. My sister on the other hand is HORRIBLE at this game. After seeing her try to play, i can assume that is what a bronze player is supposed to be. If i have a duel with her, i can literally not touch her once the entire game and still dominate. I can play Chaac with mystical mail and just stand next to her to kill her. She should never be considered for balancing gods, no Chaac and mystical mail don't need to be nerfed in any way just because she can't seem to manage to do anything.

    In other game modes where honestly yes Zeus can be a problematic enemy as there is limited room to go around and attack from behind or simply move away from his wide area attacks, and he is consistently protected by his team mates so he can continue to pump out damage, it might be hard to deal with him. This is just what he brings to the table. Every god has its upsides and downsides.

    Terra was hard to balance because she wasn't really the one actually doing anything to be OP in the first place. Her global ult allowed her team to do insane plays, it required excellent teamwork and communication and the god herself wasn't that great(thanks to several nerfs that lacking that coordinated team effort would be considered very much unjustified). It was just the buff she gave her team(regardless of her own positioning) that was great. Nike's passive is in a similar boat honestly. A Nike doesn't even have to be a great player, she still gives a lot to the team simply by being on it.(which is why like the previous Terra, it has been nerfed multiple times)

    Zeus isn't like this, even in modes where he excels he can still be shut down. Kali for instance can dive straight for him with her own ult to ensure she survives his heavy damage and beads to stop his allies from stun locking her. Geb or Hel or even Chiron after this upcoming buff can also assist should her beads be down, and that is just 1 example of a viable play. In those same small areas where Zeus can excel, he can be trapped by other wide area burst gods. Most notably his brothers Hades and Poseidon, but Hou Yi does quite a bit in such situations himself. All three of them are also better at getting out of such situations(2 leaps and nice movement buff, not to mention more CC on all of them).

  3. #33
    Member Worshipper Wildstreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXJibbles View Post
    You people are very eager to propose theories on how to overcome Zeus. If they work so well, where's your hard evidence?
    OK.
    Here at this link. That is across all ranks in Ranked from the recent 5.8 patch before his buff.

    Then there is this chart, you can choose Mage and see
    Zeus is fourth from the bottom in Win Rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is third from the bottom in Pick Rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is dead last in Ban rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is third from bottom in Pick/Ban Rate with highest at top.

    For the first link, you can also go here, find any other Mage and compare their stats in different browser windows.

    There's your hard evidence, seems you just got unlucky in getting a bunch of Zeus opposing picks. Shoot some other worse Mages have better luck than Zeus.
    Last edited by Wildstreak; 06-03-2018 at 08:50 PM.

  4. #34
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead JXJibbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    OK.
    Here at this link. That is across all ranks in Ranked from the recent 5.8 patch before his buff.

    Then there is this chart, you can choose Mage and see
    Zeus is fourth from the bottom in Win Rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is third from the bottom in Pick Rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is dead last in Ban rate with highest at top.
    Zeus is third from bottom in Pick/Ban Rate with highest at top.

    For the first link, you can also go here, find any other Mage and compare their stats in different browser windows.

    There's your hard evidence, seems you just got unlucky in getting a bunch of Zeus opposing picks. Shoot some other worse Mages have better luck than Zeus.
    Thanks for posting some actual stats. Things I'd still like to know (if the information exists):
    1. Are these all for ranked Conquest? (part of this argument is that he's not at all balanced between modes and skill levels)
    2. How high is Zeus' damage in these cases? Is it still high, but not enough to lead his team to victory? Or is it lower than I'm seeing in my games?
    3. According to these stats, there are gods in much worse places than Zeus, so why is he getting all the attention? Even these stats show that he has a high win-rate in bronze, yet, some gods (e.g. Morri) have a much lower win rate at ALL levels. Despite this, her last change was a nerf.
    4. And while we're on the subject of "HiRez logic", Thoth is even lower on the list than Zeus, but he got a nerf because "people thought he was OP". So why does HiRez sometimes follow the stats and other times follow people's false perceptions?

    So I guess the take-away message is that HiRez doesn't actually care and we can all go home knowing they'll just do something nonsensical again next patch anyways.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Prestigious Outso187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXJibbles View Post
    Thanks for posting some actual stats. Things I'd still like to know (if the information exists):
    1. Are these all for ranked Conquest? (part of this argument is that he's not at all balanced between modes and skill levels)
    2. How high is Zeus' damage in these cases? Is it still high, but not enough to lead his team to victory? Or is it lower than I'm seeing in my games?
    3. According to these stats, there are gods in much worse places than Zeus, so why is he getting all the attention? Even these stats show that he has a high win-rate in bronze, yet, some gods (e.g. Morri) have a much lower win rate at ALL levels. Despite this, her last change was a nerf.
    4. And while we're on the subject of "HiRez logic", Thoth is even lower on the list than Zeus, but he got a nerf because "people thought he was OP". So why does HiRez sometimes follow the stats and other times follow people's false perceptions?

    So I guess the take-away message is that HiRez doesn't actually care and we can all go home knowing they'll just do something nonsensical again next patch anyways.
    1. It is ranked conquest. Other modes don't matter and won't ever be balanced.
    2. It might be high but it doesn't matter. Zeus has so much of empty damage.
    3. "All the attention". He got two minor buffs.
    4. It was not about false perceptions, his win rate has gone down after those nerfs.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXJibbles View Post
    Even these stats show that he has a high win-rate in bronze,
    Bronze doesn't ever matter. I don't care how many bronze players you say there are, if bronze players play like my sister then they should be straight up ignored when it comes to balance. Don't look below gold, silver MIGHT matter but bronze most certainly does not. If they can't even handle Co-op vs AI games they shouldn't be included in the balance discussion.

  7. #37
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead JXJibbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Bronze doesn't ever matter. I don't care how many bronze players you say there are, if bronze players play like my sister then they should be straight up ignored when it comes to balance. Don't look below gold, silver MIGHT matter but bronze most certainly does not. If they can't even handle Co-op vs AI games they shouldn't be included in the balance discussion.
    You seem to have a rather low opinion of bronze players. I can go 40-1 in co-op, and smiteguru claims I'm significantly better than average, yet I get dumped in bronze and see these problems with Zeus.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXJibbles View Post
    You seem to have a rather low opinion of bronze players. I can go 40-1 in co-op, and smiteguru claims I'm significantly better than average, yet I get dumped in bronze and see these problems with Zeus.
    Sounds like you don't actually belong in bronze, since it is literally the lowest rank it is where people like my sister actually belong. If you keep playing, you won't stay in bronze. Yes i have a pretty low opinion of ACTUAL bronze players(not players temporarily placed there).

  9. #39
    Member Worshipper Wildstreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXJibbles View Post
    Thanks for posting some actual stats. Things I'd still like to know (if the information exists):
    1. Are these all for ranked Conquest? (part of this argument is that he's not at all balanced between modes and skill levels)
    2. How high is Zeus' damage in these cases? Is it still high, but not enough to lead his team to victory? Or is it lower than I'm seeing in my games?
    3. According to these stats, there are gods in much worse places than Zeus, so why is he getting all the attention? Even these stats show that he has a high win-rate in bronze, yet, some gods (e.g. Morri) have a much lower win rate at ALL levels. Despite this, her last change was a nerf.
    4. And while we're on the subject of "HiRez logic", Thoth is even lower on the list than Zeus, but he got a nerf because "people thought he was OP". So why does HiRez sometimes follow the stats and other times follow people's false perceptions?

    So I guess the take-away message is that HiRez doesn't actually care and we can all go home knowing they'll just do something nonsensical again next patch anyways.
    1 - According to that site, looks like it is.

    1A - Yes Zeus works different in other modes. As someone who plays more outside Conquest and have him I can say:
    Arena - depends on your team. If they work together, he can do decently but if they are selfish or have other problems, not so much especially if the opposition has a good Jungler type or plays together to focus targets.
    Clash - similar to Arena.
    Joust - He can do quite better here due to the narrow lanes compared to other modes, just needs at least one good body blocker and both allies to be competent.
    Assault - midway between his Arena and Joust performance.
    Rarely done Siege so I can only guess but would think it is closer to Conquest.

    1B - Zeus is in the same spot as certain other gods such as Ah Puch and Loki, sucks in Conquest but does better in other mdoes. In simple terms, depends on map design for mode and team competance.

    2 - Not sure but you could go to SmiteGame Mixer, they had 3 Zeus in Pro Console play today. Rival vs Revenge Match 2 Rival had him and Flash Point vs Elevate both matches he was on ELV team. Here is the VOD link of the rebroadcast, maybe there is some idea in there for you.

    3 - Not sure, I do not know what criteria HiRez uses to decide who gets buffed and nerfed when though based on other comments and seeing both site data and Pro streams from SmiteGame, I get some idea on why several of them happen. Zeus while showing up in Console Pros never shows up in PC Pros. In the Console Pro Vod, the Zeus plays do not seem exceptional, there was even one match where the casters complained the Zeus was underperforming.

    4 - Thoth, probably looking more at Pro play. While I rarely see Thoth myself he is very often a Pro Pick or Ban, when Picked has most often a strong impact. I can get some idea why he is not chosen much at lower levels, I just thought those reasons would be obvious.

    I think HiRez does care, just based on number of people in balance team they can only focus so much attention on so many issues plus as someone on reddit said, they have had employee changes who are trying to do modern stuff with outdated code that explains why some bugs take so long to fix and why simple looking changes cause unexpected bugs, outdated code.

    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Sounds like you don't actually belong in bronze, since it is literally the lowest rank it is where people like my sister actually belong. If you keep playing, you won't stay in bronze. Yes i have a pretty low opinion of ACTUAL bronze players(not players temporarily placed there).
    Not quite true, it is possible for someone who does not belong in lower ranks to be stuck there for various reasons I also think would be obvious.
    Last edited by Wildstreak; 06-04-2018 at 08:05 PM.

  10. #40
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    While I understand how someone whom doesn't in bronze can be stuck there for awhile, I can't see them being stuck there forever.

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