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Thread: Tyr change stance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildstreak View Post
    Sorry Fenrir has a Stun on his 1 when at full runes and Izunami has a Slow on her 2 so they are affected by Tyr. Are you looking at only Ultimates?
    I'll admit that i had forgotten about Fenrir's stun, however it only lasts 1 second and therefore isn't affected by Tyr's passive.

    Slows aren't affected by Tyr's passive, so no Izanami has no CC type affected by Tyr.

    Tyr's passive only affects Stuns, Taunts, Fears, Intoxicate and Mesmerize and only when they normally last longer than 1 second.

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    Senior Member Infamous Outso187's Avatar
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    CCR stacks on top of Tyrs passive, so with only 10% CCR, his passive + that CCR affects every application of hard cc that lasts at least 1sec. I might remember wrong but I'm pretty sure his passive affects every hard cc that is also affected by diminishing returns. That includes silences. Even if the tooltip doesn't state it.

    "Displacement CC (Grab, Knockup, Knockback, and Pull) always last their normal duration, but they will still contribute to the diminishing returns of future crowd control effects. Banishes do not interact with diminishing returns in any way."

    So anything else is affected by CCR and Tyrs passive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outso187 View Post
    CCR stacks on top of Tyrs passive, so with only 10% CCR, his passive + that CCR affects every application of hard cc that lasts at least 1sec.
    I'm not sure what you are saying here.... If Tyr builds 10% CCR and say Anubis also builds 10% CCR, and then they both get hit by Morrigan's 1s stun it lasts the same amount of time on both of them.

    So yeah, the CCR still affects 1s stuns. That doesn't mean Tyr's passive is doing anything to those 1s stuns. Again, refer to the Word of Thoth. Tyr's passive applies first(doing nothing to natural 1s stuns), then CCR applies, then diminishing returns applies. If after all of that the duration would be less than 0.5s, it is brought back up to 0.5s

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    Senior Member Infamous Outso187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    I'm not sure what you are saying here.... If Tyr builds 10% CCR and say Anubis also builds 10% CCR, and then they both get hit by Morrigan's 1s stun it lasts the same amount of time on both of them.

    So yeah, the CCR still affects 1s stuns. That doesn't mean Tyr's passive is doing anything to those 1s stuns. Again, refer to the Word of Thoth. Tyr's passive applies first(doing nothing to natural 1s stuns), then CCR applies, then diminishing returns applies. If after all of that the duration would be less than 0.5s, it is brought back up to 0.5s
    Might be but if at any point of the cc chain there is a hard cc longer than 1sec, Tyrs passive kicks in (and many of supports do have longer hard ccs). This is going far off the point.

    Also, how is it not a l2p issue when you yourself said this change would make Tyr easier (and OP af)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outso187 View Post
    Might be but if at any point of the cc chain there is a hard cc longer than 1sec, Tyrs passive kicks in (and many of supports do have longer hard ccs). This is going far off the point.

    Also, how is it not a l2p issue when you yourself said this change would make Tyr easier (and OP af)?
    I didn't say it would make him OP, only easier. If Tyr being easier would make him OP, then you are saying Tyr is already OP when played by someone who can make the most of him. Personally I think Tyr is balanced enough that it doesn't matter how good you are with him, he still isn't OP. Making him easier doesn't change that, it only makes him easier.

    As for the CC chain, yeah obviously if one of those 33 gods is used and they apply their CC then Tyr's passive kicks in. Regardless, there are only 33 of 94 gods that CAN trigger it. There are plenty of times when you won't see any of those 33 gods in your game, and as such his passive won't do anything the entire match.

    Also, even if one of those 33 are in your match, if they apply their CC as part of a CC chain diminishing returns may end up reducing it to 0.5s regardless of Tyr's passive. In which case his passive still isn't really even doing anything(such as when ANY of those 1.5s stuns hits as the 3rd CC in the chain). Keep in mind diminishing returns stacks last 15 seconds. So if the opposing team has a lot of CC, odds are you will have diminishing returns reducing the CC often.

    Again, I'm not saying his passive is bad but it is not one of the best passives in the game.

    Nike has one of the best passives in the game.

    Discordia has one of the best passives in the game.

    Bacchus has one of the best passives in the game.

    Tyr most definitely does not have one of the best passives in the game.

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    Senior Member Infamous Outso187's Avatar
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    It is very unlikely diminishing returns bring down something like Athena taunt to 0.5secs. If you don't have any CCR built, it will be 1.32secs minimum. Also, since when is 33% bad? Thats third of the cast and those god have the best ccs in the game (like that Athena taunt) and Tyr simply laughs to them.

    And I didn't mean making him easy in itself would make him OP. But the change to his stance change cooldown would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outso187 View Post
    It is very unlikely diminishing returns bring down something like Athena taunt to 0.5secs. If you don't have any CCR built, it will be 1.32secs minimum. Also, since when is 33% bad? Thats third of the cast and those god have the best ccs in the game (like that Athena taunt) and Tyr simply laughs to them.

    And I didn't mean making him easy in itself would make him OP. But the change to his stance change cooldown would.
    Athena is one of the 16 gods that diminishing returns alone won't bring duration down to 0.5s out of those 33 gods Tyr's passive applies to.

    Still, 17 of those 33 gods durations already only last 0.5s if used 3rd in a CC chain. If you are building CCR on Tyr since it stacks with his passive and all, his passive once again becomes less valuable. Sure it makes it so all that CC only lasts 0.6s before diminishing returns, but it also makes the difference between Tyr and any other god also building CCR even smaller.

    For instance, Isis 1.5 second stun lasts 0.5s less on Tyr than other gods if hit at max range. However if they both use max CCR it lasts 0.6s on Tyr and 0.9s on everyone else. A mere 0.3s difference. Most people will hardly notice this difference, it matters sure but it is small.

    With a single stack of diminishing returns, it lasts 0.5s on Tyr and 0.6s on everyone else. In this case the difference truly isn't noticeable.

    With 2 stacks(max) of diminishing returns the duration on both of them is 0.5s(same as not using any CCR).

    Of course if they removed the stupid CC can't be brought below 0.5s rule then Tyr's passive would be a lot better(than it is currently), bringing CC down to 0.2s at max CCR and max diminishing returns. But because of that stupid rule, building CCR and Tyr's passive in general are only really good for initial CC and don't offer much for chain CC.

    Also at max diminishing returns Athena taunt only lasts 0.6s without building CCR. 1.3s is if you only have 1 stack of diminishing returns, but it is possible to have 2 stacks of diminishing returns. Such as sliding on Skadi ice, then getting pulled by Susano'o, then taunted by Athena, Athena's taunt would only last 0.6s

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    Your scenarios are even more situational than mine. First of all, most supports have cc that lasts more than 1sec. Secondly, if there is no CCR built, most gods won't get that 0.5sec DR unless it's third cc in the chain, and most gods will be dead after second cc anyway. Yes, the amount of gods that Tyrs passive affects might "only" be 33 but quite a lot of those are seen regularly, especially on support role. So if your solo laner can basically frontline without caring about their cc, I'd say that is quite good thing. Don't try to undersell it. Tyr is completely fine as he is now, end of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outso187 View Post
    Your scenarios are even more situational than mine. First of all, most supports have cc that lasts more than 1sec. Secondly, if there is no CCR built, most gods won't get that 0.5sec DR unless it's third cc in the chain, and most gods will be dead after second cc anyway. Yes, the amount of gods that Tyrs passive affects might "only" be 33 but quite a lot of those are seen regularly, especially on support role. So if your solo laner can basically frontline without caring about their cc, I'd say that is quite good thing. Don't try to undersell it. Tyr is completely fine as he is now, end of story.
    I'm not trying to undersell it, DR lasts a long time(15s) but yeah most of the time you are dead after the second hard CC anyway. There are team comps you might end up against where you'll gain stacks of DR without dying often but usually it means death.

    However I'll quite often see entire teams where Tyr's passive won't trigger. Such as when Ganesha supports,(been seeing him a lot lately) or Sobek.

    I've also had several games where there was no traditional support and instead went double hunter in duo(usually both ability based hunters giving some nasty early wave clear).

    35%(33 of 94) of gods seems like a nice chance to have one of those gods in your game, but you can only have 5 on a team. I'll see one of those 33 gods in about half of my games, the other half won't have any.

    Of course we'll see how things go as more gods are added. Perhaps gods that trigger Tyr's passive will begin to encompass a larger percentage. Or perhaps by the time we reach 150 gods there will only be 40 that trigger it(in which case developer's might start thinking of reworking it based on the direction they want to take the game).

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    Hm I think Tyr is fine as he is. Flexible stance switch like that would make him way more unpredictable and put less stress on the player to actually think strategic with the his stances. Since he saw spl play and performed really well there I see no reason to change him up.
    Rocking the boat

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