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Thread: Toxic Blade

  1. #21
    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Again, make it tempting enough to pick up all the time and healers are hit hard. They need a physical equivalent to Rod of Asclepious as well first.

    Otherwise you'll have gods building brawler's beatstick and toxic dagger and reducing healing 80% by themselves just because they are both great items.

    Or Freya building divine ruin and toxic dagger and reducing healing 80% just by shooting her basics.

    If you have divine and brawlers and toxic applied at the same time that's 120% antiheal. And you will likely have pestilence on your frontliner so its already 100% with just divine and toxic or brawlers and toxic.

    With all 4 giving 140%, even with rod of asclepious you still have no healing. And cursed ankh bumps it up to 190% antiheal, as well as many gods having 50% antiheal built into their kits.

    Fact is, healing needs some love before toxic gets a buff.
    Physical healers are pretty much Guan Yu and they already showed aren't willing to have an item that's only beneficial for one character by reworking Gauntlet of Thebes. Asclepius hasn't been bought lately so it's not all that antihealing is making such an impact even against Asclepius as you say, that got recently buffed.

    Antihealing items usually aren't the best to get just for the sake of getting more antihealing. Except for maybe Brawler's, they don't provide stats that attractive so you consider the antihealing part as just a little add-on to be more of an annoyance even if you don't need it. Divine Ruin is OK, but if you don't really need the antihealing, there are items with way more power, pen or CD such as Spear of Desolation, and with the cost increase of Pestilence I don't think they keep buying it just for the stats. A character like Freya is never going to build as much antihealing as they can just to bother because there are much better items out of there for them.

    The current stats of Toxic Blade are too ambiguous. Common sense tells this item is for offensive basic-attack focused characters, but the stats don't match this concept. I'm talking of a change in a way the item makes sense, not to break it. I maybe made a vague suggestion, but I think I made pretty clear it was just to get it purely offensive and all current stats would be subject of shift and balance as offset.

    Cursed Ankh is not really bought at all unless it's heavily needed.

    A right change for this item wouldn't be the end of healers, just a more solid option for those gods that can't rely on other antihealing items. If they didn't really want TB to be viable for the reason you mentioned, then they simply shouldn't have released it.

    Nevertheless and regardlessly of Toxic Blade's state, I do think that antihealing should have some sort of limit or diminishing return effect. Items shouldn't have the power of completely negating a character's gimmick. They already removed the former Stone of Gaia's passive for that very reason and reworked Asclepius making clear that they wanted to fuel combat healing, but the way they treat antihealing items contradicts it as it encourages out-of-combat healing.

    They have to tweak this, but also TB's core stats.
    Last edited by NervousCrysis; 04-14-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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  2. #22
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    But increased healing like asclepious passive isn't just for gods that heal team mates... It applies to lifesteal and self healing as well.

    For instance, Chaac may like a rod of asclepious equivalent.

    Camazotz actually has it built into his passive already, but further boosting his built in increased healing and lifesteal is something I'm sure he'd be interested in.

    Plus, if it were an aura item like asclepious then it will STACK with asclepious so if you do have healers on your team it will help them heal you.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    But increased healing like asclepious passive isn't just for gods that heal team mates... It applies to lifesteal and self healing as well.

    For instance, Chaac may like a rod of asclepious equivalent.

    Camazotz actually has it built into his passive already, but further boosting his built in increased healing and lifesteal is something I'm sure he'd be interested in.

    Plus, if it were an aura item like asclepious then it will STACK with asclepious so if you do have healers on your team it will help them heal you.
    It doesn't apply for lifesteal, just for healing and self healing. It specifies it's just for abilities. Maybe it works with lifesteal increasing abilities, I'm not sure about that, but that's it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    It doesn't apply for lifesteal, just for healing and self healing. It specifies it's just for abilities. Maybe it works with lifesteal increasing abilities, I'm not sure about that, but that's it.
    Weird, antiheal and increased healing affect each other additively and antiheal definitely affects lifesteal. You'd think increased healing would also then affect lifesteal.

    100% antiheal means no healing.

    100% antiheal and 25% increased healing makes 25% healing

    125% antiheal and 25% increased healing makes no healing.

    So you are saying 100% antiheal and 25% increased healing, the lifesteal would still not heal at all right?

    If i had a bunch of friends to test it with i could attempt to confirm, i just assumed since antiheal and increased healing were direct counters to each other that they would both apply to lifesteal.

    Regardless nearly half of all physical gods have a form of healing(mostly selfish self healing), and would love to stack an additional aura on top of asclepious to improve self sustain.

    And this season I've been seeing a LOT of 100% built antiheal on team compositions to shut down healers. Another asclepious effect would help at least make it more difficult to maintain.(since it would make built in antiheal such as a Sobek or Bacchus or the relic necessary to reduce it completely)

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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Weird, antiheal and increased healing affect each other additively and antiheal definitely affects lifesteal. You'd think increased healing would also then affect lifesteal.

    100% antiheal means no healing.

    100% antiheal and 25% increased healing makes 25% healing

    125% antiheal and 25% increased healing makes no healing.

    So you are saying 100% antiheal and 25% increased healing, the lifesteal would still not heal at all right?

    If i had a bunch of friends to test it with i could attempt to confirm, i just assumed since antiheal and increased healing were direct counters to each other that they would both apply to lifesteal.

    Regardless nearly half of all physical gods have a form of healing(mostly selfish self healing), and would love to stack an additional aura on top of asclepious to improve self sustain.

    And this season I've been seeing a LOT of 100% built antiheal on team compositions to shut down healers. Another asclepious effect would help at least make it more difficult to maintain.(since it would make built in antiheal such as a Sobek or Bacchus or the relic necessary to reduce it completely)
    100% antihealing doesn't mean no healing because you may have more than 100% healing through skills and items to start off. Read Asclepius, I'm sure it just affects skill healings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    100% antihealing doesn't mean no healing because you may have more than 100% healing through skills and items to start off. Read Asclepius, I'm sure it just affects skill healings.
    I just tested with my brother, Rod of Asclepious does affect lifesteal. You are welcome.

  7. #27
    Member Follower MArBuSe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    This item is a good concept with a good passive, but it doesn't get bought still. The reason for this is the stats it gives:

    +100 HEALTH
    +15 PENETRATION
    +20% ATTACK SPEED
    +10% MOVEMENT SPEED

    These stats are meant to appeal both carries and tanks and give flexibility of who gets it at the end. As usual, that's its very problem. Defensive stats are nothing but far to be decent for purchase just for the sake of the passive and the same goes for the offensive; this item gives no power at all and the attack speed is not that good to be considered a pure attack speed item to round the build up. Toxic needs to focus to find success, and the obvious way is offense, as there are few basic attack focused tanks and not even them want to build this.

    Of course, the tree this item is in restricts the stats it may have, but then it just shouldn't be there. It could be moved into the Ichaival tree (if there is no space left in there just remove that useless item called Atlanta's, Atalanta's, Atalantantas' Bow or whatever its name is to make room for it). And there it should get its HP traded for a decent bunch of power and the rest might stay the same or receive more attack speed or whatever but you get the idea.

    Just make it attractive for the true potential interested costumers, ADCs.
    this item is not for tanks , maybe for bruisers , or assassins ... but not for tanks... u can build it on erlang or ravana , but it won't ever give enough dmge or tankiness to ignore better options...

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    Member Follower MArBuSe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    I just tested with my brother, Rod of Asclepious does affect lifesteal. You are welcome.
    it's supposed to affect life steal if it's connected with passive or buff

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    Quote Originally Posted by MArBuSe View Post
    it's supposed to affect life steal if it's connected with passive or buff
    I'm not sure what you mean exactly but maybe i wasn't clear enough.

    Asclepious affects ALL lifesteal. Including lifesteal from items. I tested by building lifesteal on Janus and having a freya apply 100% antiheal to me. When i didn't have Asclepious, the 100% antiheal prevented me from healing with my lifesteal. After buying Asclepious, 100% antiheal did NOT prevent me from healing with lifesteal.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MArBuSe View Post
    this item is not for tanks , maybe for bruisers , or assassins ... but not for tanks... u can build it on erlang or ravana , but it won't ever give enough dmge or tankiness to ignore better options...
    With tanks I mean everyone that builds tanky, and that's Erlang for example. I wasn't being specific about roles, and it's not like 'tank' or 'bruiser' is a role neither in own Smite terms. If you say tank and bruiser in the same phrase, you can't understand you're distinguishing guardians from warriors, but I just said tanks and carries so I don't know where you see those specifications.

    And I don't know why in the world you'd build Toxic on Ravana, when Brawler's is a much better item focused on ability-based gods, what Ravana is.
    We are not here to entertain you. We are not here to get entertained. We fight, but we are not here to win... Or lose. We are here... To feed.

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