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Thread: Qin's sai and Executioner. what's the difference?

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    Member Worshipper Razrtongue's Avatar
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    Qin's sai and Executioner. what's the difference?

    they are both items that are built off of the same tree. they are both damage-based items. I get it that executioner has protection reduction, which allows everyone to benefit from it. but what is the real difference betweent the two items? I mean, why should I take one over the other and vice versa? what kind of god should take which?
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    Member Worshipper MemphisMiles's Avatar
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    Here's my understanding of it - Outside of the obvious differences in atk speed and power (qins has more power, and hence is more expensive as power tends to scale much more critcally on AA based gods than atk spd), the real difference in their passives has to do with type of penetration you need:

    1. Executioner shreds protections on basics, meaning that enemies that have stacked protections through items are better 'made soft' with this method

    2. Qins is built more to shred health - it takes chunks of health away (vs. protections). Hence a big meaty target stacking health items, or having higher base health (Warriors, Guards, or 'tanky Gods') are good targets for Qins damage. The higher the enemies health is the more Qins with 'bite away' at it.

    Beware of thinking Qins will do much to Gods with low health and lots of armor items, and beware of thinking Executioner will melt high-health tanky Gods (with defensive items, too).

    Situationally Atk Spd Gods and builds benefit most. Assassins and Hunters are primary Gods using these items, while some warriors that do well with basic attacks (think Cu Chu, AA Bell builds, Erlang) also can take fine advantage.

    TLDR: Qins ignores protections altogether while Executioner focuses only on shredding protections.
    Last edited by MemphisMiles; 03-31-2018 at 08:35 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisMiles View Post
    TLDR: Qins ignores protections altogether while Executioner focuses only on shredding protections.
    Qin Sais does not ignore protections.

    Qin Sais PASSIVE - On Basic Attack hits, deal Physical Damage equal to 3% of the target's maximum Health. If the target has over 2000 Health, the bonus damage scales up. This effect reaches a maximum of 5% of the targets Maximum Health at 2750 Health.

    If Qin Sais totally ignores protections, that implies it applies true damage. Which would mean that the passive procs applied do not increase regardless of how much power or protection shred, would always be the same value, and would be calculated based on X% of target's maximum health.

    But that's not the case. If you look at the wording, note that the passive deals physical damage.

    This can be easily tested in jungle practice. Go into jungle practice, get both Qin Sais and Executioner. Don't level any abilities. Just hit autos at the target. After the first Qin Sais passive proc, you will notice that subsequent procs are bigger, as the percentage protection shred from Executioner is applied.

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    Member Worshipper MemphisMiles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loupblanc10kai View Post
    Qin Sais does not ignore protections.

    Qin Sais PASSIVE - On Basic Attack hits, deal Physical Damage equal to 3% of the target's maximum Health. If the target has over 2000 Health, the bonus damage scales up. This effect reaches a maximum of 5% of the targets Maximum Health at 2750 Health.

    If Qin Sais totally ignores protections, that implies it applies true damage. Which would mean that the passive procs applied do not increase regardless of how much power or protection shred, would always be the same value, and would be calculated based on X% of target's maximum health.

    But that's not the case. If you look at the wording, note that the passive deals physical damage.

    This can be easily tested in jungle practice. Go into jungle practice, get both Qin Sais and Executioner. Don't level any abilities. Just hit autos at the target. After the first Qin Sais passive proc, you will notice that subsequent procs are bigger, as the percentage protection shred from Executioner is applied.
    OK I guess that makes sense. You are correct it does not ignore protections, but my point was that it doesn't effect protections with it's passive - it's passive is about the health of an enemy, not their layers of protections. So you will have the same mitigation to deal with as with, say, Masamune, but you will take chunks of health. Execution takes layers of protections. The wording I used wasn't accurate, good catch.
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    Exeuxtioners are the adcs version of titans bane so to speak. Its good as a penetration item cause it gives attackspeed.
    Quin needs pen to work well against tanks. And you pick this item if you are going into a pen and attackspeed build to shred tanks and warriors.
    Dont build quin with crits as it is a waste of another more usefull item that would better synergize with crits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorfindal View Post
    Exeuxtioners are the adcs version of titans bane so to speak. Its good as a penetration item cause it gives attackspeed.
    Quin needs pen to work well against tanks. And you pick this item if you are going into a pen and attackspeed build to shred tanks and warriors.
    Dont build quin with crits as it is a waste of another more usefull item that would better synergize with crits.
    No, titans bane is the adc version of titans bane...

    Executioner is the physical version of demonic grip.

    Keep in mind the changes titans and obsidian went through this season, titans can ignore a larger portion than a fully stacked executioner against a tank whereas previous seasons a fully stacked executioner always gave more shredding power against players

    I'll agree on not using quins with crit, I'd much rather use The Crusher with crit than quins. Plus The Crusher synergizes well with Malice.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead skoots7's Avatar
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    To put it simply Razrtongue, If you see multiple health items build Qins. Popular health items for tanks would be Stone of Gaia and Guantlet of Thebes. If you see more protection based items like Breastplate of Valor or Hide of the Nemean Lion, executioner may be your better item. Obviously every decision will be situational, but this is more general rule of thumb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razrtongue View Post
    they are both items that are built off of the same tree. they are both damage-based items. I get it that executioner has protection reduction, which allows everyone to benefit from it. but what is the real difference betweent the two items? I mean, why should I take one over the other and vice versa? what kind of god should take which?
    Titan's Bane and its Magical equivalent Obsidian Shard are for doing more damage to a single target, specifically tank high health gods. If you are building for single target damage, you usually want this.

    Executioner is not only to increase your damage on a target, it lowers protections to allow allies to do more damage thus a better teamfight tool.

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    so executioner, deals percentage pen, some attack speed damage,
    god's in smite have attack progressions, swing chain, so kali can auto attack 4 times where as thor 2 with a normal build, hence quins is super good on kali because of her hit chain, same with Osiris, so quin's gives damage on each hit, its a little confusing, good vs tanks or if you want more attack speed build

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead Lord__Hazanko's Avatar
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    Do these combo with Erlang Shen?

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