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Thread: Do we really need Hastened Katana ?

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    Member Follower DeMasterz92's Avatar
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    Question Do we really need Hastened Katana ?

    I know, you'll be like "HK is core item for Baka and Kali, why would you remove that item?"

    Simple question, simple answer :
    - HK cannot be countered by any item.

    "BUT you can leap or dash to evade from that haste effect! " :
    -1) not every god has a leap or dash.
    - 2) who has it, use it, and then Kali and Baka use their own to stick to that guy again and killed him .


    "BUT kali and baka needs that item, it's core item, they are heavly focused around their AA and they need to stick to their opponents" :
    - No. I'll tell you why.
    They need to stick? Ok, they have a leap. Kali has a Stun too; Baka has a big circle of slow and cripple in his ult.
    What ? is that not enough ? Ok.. Here's your item:
    You can build FROSTBOUND HAMMER for your AA.


    "BUT why would you prefer FB hammer to HK?"
    - because Frostbound CAN be contered by an item : winged blade.
    We need things that actually can be countered by other IMO. Not the opposite.


    I have another thing to say about HK : this items bring this strange interaction with the gameplay with these character simply turn around you while hitting you in a 360 degrees and you barely have the chance to escape/hit them to fight them. You know what Im talking about..
    It's a bit ugly to face, or to see it. It's also frustrating.

    I always hated the hastened fatalis, now this item is surely less builded, but it still give melee gods that unecessary effect, imo.

    So, do we REALLY need this item ? Thoughts ?

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    It does have a counter, it is called midgaurdian mail. You're welcome.

    The old relic hand of the gods worked wonders as well, but they just HAD to remove it.

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    Member Follower DeMasterz92's Avatar
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    Midguardian = 30% chance to slow your enemy's Movement Speed and Attack Speeds by 30% for 2 seconds.
    Honestly I didn't think about this item, that could help..
    The effect is good, but..

    ->30%. That's annoys me.
    So I have to really rely on "luck" to get rid of a baka or a kali that's after me ?

    Ok, they AA truly A LOT, so that's 30% should happen in few seconds. But why ?

    They could simply remove HK and the problem is solved.

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    I will agree that the 30% chance thing is awful and they should really make it proc more consistently, be it every 3 basics or perhaps a 5 sec cooldown. I do kind of understand why it isnt just a permanent 100% chance though, it'd be the biggest hunter counter item in the game.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    HK is countered by any CC, one escape isn't enough sticking power for the gods who would use HK, and FB is better-suited to bruisers than assassins. This item is necessary, end of story.
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    Member Worshipper LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    It really isn't necessary at all. If you need it, its a crutch and means you can't finish off your target quickly enough. With how reliable and overpowered crit is currently, give Baka or Kali a hunters build with high power and crit chance, and they'll just one shot or nearly one shot their target (there are also enough crit effects like Poisoned Star or Wind Demon, that the slow and MS buffs could easily replace HK). The only person I can think of that can stick to someone without HK is Arachne, and she's meh right now. Even Kali can do it decently enough without HK given the right items to use.

    Midgardian Mail isn't even a true counter cause of this: It's a percentage chance, only slows attack speed by a few points (which is useless against Kali cause her attack chain is stupidly fast to begin with), and the base protections and stats on it aren't worth it for most players in a game to pick it up. Mages and hunters will never get it, they need other items. Assassins might get it if their kit allows it. You'll see this most commonly on warriors and tanks, the ones who aren't focused in team fights by assassins. And even then, most supports and warriors won't pick it up cause once again, there are better items, less SELFISH items. This item is also countered by Winged Blade, Sprint and Slow Cleansing gods like Kuku, Mercury and a few others (it has as MS slow in it as well, not just an AS debuff). And with its health level, its countered decently as well by Health damaging items/abilities like Qins, EStaff, Soul Reaver etc.

    SirKeksalot, If HK is countered by CC, CC already has just as many counters, most notably Purification beads. Magi's is a thing as well, along with team cleanses, like Geb Shield, Hel Cleanse, etc etc etc. And even then, if Kali, Baka or some such other god, gets cc'd out of basic attacking, they can finish committing with their leap. And with gods like Baka and Kali, they are single target gods, They are going to go for the picks that are alone or alone in the backline, not giving the rest of their team a chance to respond to them before they got their target and have once again vanished. Thats what any good player using those gods will do. Get in, kill and get out before the enemy can respond. And with how prominent crit and on hit effects are currently with those two, such an maneuver will take 2 seconds or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeMasterz92 View Post
    I have another thing to say about HK : this items bring this strange interaction with the gameplay with these character simply turn around you while hitting you in a 360 degrees and you barely have the chance to escape/hit them to fight them. You know what Im talking about..
    It's a bit ugly to face, or to see it. It's also frustrating.
    This is due to how melee attacks are done. ALL melee characters have what is basically a 150 -160 degree cone in front of them that they swing in regardless of their animation. If multiple enemies are in it, they target the closest one to the center of that cone (IE right down their sight line if you have the ruler showing). This is actually what makes items like Hastened Katana and Frostbound so annoying to play against.

    You could actually apply a lot of this same logic to frostbound hammer as well. It isn't truly needed. And if you actually dissect its passive, that slow with damage reduction on it is actually VERY over powered against a lot of gods. And with Sprint and other slow immunity type items being its only counter right now, it can be quite hard to counter, especially if you're alone in laning phase with no team around to help you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LinkNightblade View Post
    It really isn't necessary at all. If you need it, its a crutch and means you can't finish off your target quickly enough. With how reliable and overpowered crit is currently, give Baka or Kali a hunters build with high power and crit chance, and they'll just one shot or nearly one shot their target (there are also enough crit effects like Poisoned Star or Wind Demon, that the slow and MS buffs could easily replace HK). The only person I can think of that can stick to someone without HK is Arachne, and she's meh right now. Even Kali can do it decently enough without HK given the right items to use.

    Midgardian Mail isn't even a true counter cause of this: It's a percentage chance, only slows attack speed by a few points (which is useless against Kali cause her attack chain is stupidly fast to begin with), and the base protections and stats on it aren't worth it for most players in a game to pick it up. Mages and hunters will never get it, they need other items. Assassins might get it if their kit allows it. You'll see this most commonly on warriors and tanks, the ones who aren't focused in team fights by assassins. And even then, most supports and warriors won't pick it up cause once again, there are better items, less SELFISH items. This item is also countered by Winged Blade, Sprint and Slow Cleansing gods like Kuku, Mercury and a few others (it has as MS slow in it as well, not just an AS debuff). And with its health level, its countered decently as well by Health damaging items/abilities like Qins, EStaff, Soul Reaver etc.

    SirKeksalot, If HK is countered by CC, CC already has just as many counters, most notably Purification beads. Magi's is a thing as well, along with team cleanses, like Geb Shield, Hel Cleanse, etc etc etc. And even then, if Kali, Baka or some such other god, gets cc'd out of basic attacking, they can finish committing with their leap. And with gods like Baka and Kali, they are single target gods, They are going to go for the picks that are alone or alone in the backline, not giving the rest of their team a chance to respond to them before they got their target and have once again vanished. Thats what any good player using those gods will do. Get in, kill and get out before the enemy can respond. And with how prominent crit and on hit effects are currently with those two, such an maneuver will take 2 seconds or less.



    This is due to how melee attacks are done. ALL melee characters have what is basically a 150 -160 degree cone in front of them that they swing in regardless of their animation. If multiple enemies are in it, they target the closest one to the center of that cone (IE right down their sight line if you have the ruler showing). This is actually what makes items like Hastened Katana and Frostbound so annoying to play against.

    You could actually apply a lot of this same logic to frostbound hammer as well. It isn't truly needed. And if you actually dissect its passive, that slow with damage reduction on it is actually VERY over powered against a lot of gods. And with Sprint and other slow immunity type items being its only counter right now, it can be quite hard to counter, especially if you're alone in laning phase with no team around to help you.
    Your argument is about it not being necessary to burst down squishies. That is fine and all, but I'd still like to keep the option. Besides, where it really shines is its sticking power(not burst) to help bring down the tanks with sustained damage.

    The original poster isn't actually asking if the item is necessary regardless of the name of the thread, what is being asked is should get rid of hastened katana as shown by reading the actual post.

    Yes midguardian mail is a selfish counter item to hastened katana. Why is that important? You already said yourself that the squishies die too fast for hastened katana to be needed anyway, so the only ones who'd need to counter it in the first place are the tanks whom the sustained damage is helpful against. Winged blade preventing a single proc of midguardian isn't really a counter when it comes to sustained damage though, it just helps give a larger window of opportunity. Winged blade is better at stopping enemies who dont have many slows to begin with.

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    Guide Chosen GogetaAR's Avatar
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    To be honest, I would prefer that Frostbound got removed instead of Hastened Katana, but yeah, being able to stick to someone is more OP than slowing an enemy. And by the way, Winged Blade isn't in a great place right now, and it only works every 30 seconds with all the slows, not just the slows you get from Frostbound, so it isn't such a viable counter as you put it.

    Hastened Katana is fine, you can always CC your enemy or buy more movement speed.
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Why do we need items at all? Can just remove all items. Bla bla.

    Hk is a cool nische item with mediocre stats and there are so many ways to counter it, its fine.

    Counters: sprint, curse, gem, frosbound, midgardian.

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    Senior Member Honoured Raptoriuzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    It does have a counter, it is called midgaurdian mail. You're welcome.
    An item, that is not being built unless in super duper ultra mega giga rare occasions.

    Also, how exactly does MidgMail counter? A 30% chance for a 30% speed reduction? Oh, I am sorry, but items like Masamune, SCS and Katana have 10% additional movement speed. On top of Kali being immune to slows in her ult, and Bakasura getting 1.5 seconds CC-immunity + Passive with additional movement speed, not even mentioning the fact that both have jumps to engage and ways of counter control to prevent enemy from getting away from them.

    That's on top of different additional buffs this game has, additional movement speed items this game has.

    There is a reason no other MOBA in the world has an item close to the same effect as Fatalis had.
    Last edited by Raptoriuzz; 03-12-2018 at 07:06 AM.

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