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Thread: The Issue with Items

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    New Member Cupidhead DarlingDevil's Avatar
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    The Issue with Items

    I've been a long time promoter of the idea that gods and their power are a symptom of the items in the game, and Season 5 has honestly brought a lot of these glaring faults into the light. However, simply claiming "items are OP, nerfpls" isn't a unique complaint, so let me elaborate.

    In general, items need to balance between raw damage, utility and cost. Ideally, no item costs significantly more than another item. Otherwise we run into the current issue we have between DG and Asi.

    To paint this picture as plainly as I can, I'll take an item I consider fairly baseline and balanced for the cost:
    Telkhines Ring. 70 power, 20% attack speed and 10% move speed with some bonus damage on autos. For 2.8k.
    Let's compare this to Warlock Staff.
    65 Power, 200 Health and 400 Mana. The passive is something we all well know, leading to a 2.65k item giving 115 power, 600 health and 400 mana.
    Why is this an issue? It's a blatant example of power creep. Those stats are absurd for a cheap item. They turn any character from tissue paper into a bruiser. That alone isn't the issue. The power it provides is only beaten out by Rod, which costs 350 gold more, and ONLY gives power and mana regen. Trading 35 power for a decrease in cost of 350 gold, 400 mana and 600 hp? Sign me up!
    What about the now infamous Stone of Gaia? Same issue. The stats it provide for the cost alone are an issue, but the item, like Warlock Staff, has completely dominated Smite's build paths. It also has a problematic passive. Healing a percentage of your max health per second is strong enough. Many other MOBAs have gone out of their ways to nerf or limit these kind of effects. From Warmogs in LoL to Heart of Tarrasque in Dota 2, they both limit the healing to OUT of combat. Both of these games also make these items extremely costly to acquire, due to the absurd power spike infinite sustain can provide early on. On top of ignoring this common sense and making the passive never stop AND the item costing next to nothing, it also has ANOTHER passive that provides burst healing if you have the audacity to CC the owner. The item was core on a lot of character in Assault long before the changes to make it better. In Smite's desire to make it used in Conquest, they have made it too powerful.

    So, wall of text and complaints aside, how do we fix this? Ideally we could hold a public forum post and have a vote on all items so the players can give their feeddback. Given the unfeasibility of that, I suggest some simple changes:
    Lower the power of the items causing issues in the current S5 meta immediately. I'm aware jumping to conclusions and nerfing things in a timely manner is unlike Hi-Rez (Ullr. Never forget.), but leaving things as they are is just silly.

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    Member Worshipper SquireAngel's Avatar
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    I vote that we not let the player base decide, or we'd have hastened fatalis back on freya and adcs. Tbh, warlocks staff takes a really long time to come online, and it's been super meta for the past few patches, and mages haven't been more of an issue than they usually are. Still easy to gank mages, still easy for adcs to pick off, still easy for tanks to lock down with cc.

    Gaia's is kinda popular in solo for sustain, but hp on its own isn't too strong. You need protections, and most of the ones buying stone are later game gods, so you can bully them hard.

    As for staff, it's strong because mages have less power this season with rod of Tahuti changed. They need survivability to deal more than one burst rotation in a fight.

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Except Warlocks has been here since forever (like season 1?) and after its buff/nerf has only 5 more power than it originally had.

    How in hell is that power creep compared to an item that's brand new? Confused on your wording.
    What do I put here now?

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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    Be glad for one thing, Smite isn't like League, where any Champion can buy any item.

    But honestly, there will always be a difference in item cost and power, be it on Smite or League or Dota

    The whole idea is that for the items that cost a nice chunk of gold and also give out good stats is, hey you need to invest that gold.

    And it is a two way street.

    By making that investment, there are other items you are passing up that might benefit you more at that time.

    In turn, you also leave yourself more vulnerable, because you might not have the item build to properly take on another God, since you made that investment.
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    Member Follower MArBuSe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarlingDevil View Post
    I've been a long time promoter of the idea that gods and their power are a symptom of the items in the game, and Season 5 has honestly brought a lot of these glaring faults into the light. However, simply claiming "items are OP, nerfpls" isn't a unique complaint, so let me elaborate.

    In general, items need to balance between raw damage, utility and cost. Ideally, no item costs significantly more than another item. Otherwise we run into the current issue we have between DG and Asi.

    To paint this picture as plainly as I can, I'll take an item I consider fairly baseline and balanced for the cost:
    Telkhines Ring. 70 power, 20% attack speed and 10% move speed with some bonus damage on autos. For 2.8k.
    Let's compare this to Warlock Staff.
    65 Power, 200 Health and 400 Mana. The passive is something we all well know, leading to a 2.65k item giving 115 power, 600 health and 400 mana.
    Why is this an issue? It's a blatant example of power creep. Those stats are absurd for a cheap item. They turn any character from tissue paper into a bruiser. That alone isn't the issue. The power it provides is only beaten out by Rod, which costs 350 gold more, and ONLY gives power and mana regen. Trading 35 power for a decrease in cost of 350 gold, 400 mana and 600 hp? Sign me up!
    What about the now infamous Stone of Gaia? Same issue. The stats it provide for the cost alone are an issue, but the item, like Warlock Staff, has completely dominated Smite's build paths. It also has a problematic passive. Healing a percentage of your max health per second is strong enough. Many other MOBAs have gone out of their ways to nerf or limit these kind of effects. From Warmogs in LoL to Heart of Tarrasque in Dota 2, they both limit the healing to OUT of combat. Both of these games also make these items extremely costly to acquire, due to the absurd power spike infinite sustain can provide early on. On top of ignoring this common sense and making the passive never stop AND the item costing next to nothing, it also has ANOTHER passive that provides burst healing if you have the audacity to CC the owner. The item was core on a lot of character in Assault long before the changes to make it better. In Smite's desire to make it used in Conquest, they have made it too powerful.

    So, wall of text and complaints aside, how do we fix this? Ideally we could hold a public forum post and have a vote on all items so the players can give their feeddback. Given the unfeasibility of that, I suggest some simple changes:
    Lower the power of the items causing issues in the current S5 meta immediately. I'm aware jumping to conclusions and nerfing things in a timely manner is unlike Hi-Rez (Ullr. Never forget.), but leaving things as they are is just silly.
    my dear friend , u misunderstood , cheap item that have stackable stats are not an issue even while it gives 115 magical power with lot of health and mana and even more power if u combine it with book of thoth , no it's not a problem , problem is with flexibility , item cost is pretty normal even while it takes relatively short time to stack .
    stone of gaias are issue? why ?
    it's an utility item , i don't understand u ... main issue for smite is lack of items for diverse builds . i agree some items have really unbalanced stats , but problem is still the same , ( stone of gaia is countered by anti heal ) it's cheap simply because of it's place , for roles and overall Purpose . it looks cheap and effective simply because it's the only option , and have no counterpart , ofc we have Mail of Renewal , but this item is not in the same place ... so your arguments are weird .

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