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Thread: Healing and Antiheal Discussion

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Healing and Antiheal Discussion

    From what I've noticed in my time playing season 5 vs season 4, healing has taken a MAJOR dive in numbers across all my games and all the levels of play I've seen, both in my games and on twitch. In Joust and Conquest, I regularly get overstacked on antiheal when I play a Chang'e or Hel.

    For comparison, in season 4 conquest (and season 3 for the most part), on my 40 minute matches, when I played an AoE healer like Hel or Chang'e, I would have somewhere around 35k healing. In season 5, I consistently have 20k healing or less. Very rarely do I go over that number. More often then not it sits even lower then 15k and I actively seek to heal in team fights and out of combat as well.

    I also understand that this is due to a few things, one of those reasons being that team fights start later and don't happen as often reducing the opportunities to heal. However, another thing I noticed is that Antiheal is far to easily stacked and healing is far to easily punished now with Cursed Ankh being in the game, especially its upgraded version. As someone who likes to play healers and see them in a good area, not OP and not completely useless, currently it feels like they are very useless. Healers, generally speaking, have slightly weaker damage in their kits as well to compensate their ability to heal and sustain a team, and with the loss of healing due to how easy it is to mitigate it, they are at a point, where they can't heal and they can't do damage (with very few exceptions, Ra being one of them who has damage galore).

    To give an few examples of how easy it is to overstack antiheal, I played Chang'e recently as the only source of healing on my team. The enemy team had Sobek (40%), Brawlers (40%), Toxic (45% at 3 stacks), Divine (40%), 2 Ankhs (50% x 2), and a Pestilence (25%). Since Ankh's don't stack antihealing, the total antiheal at any given time, was 240% at max, though usually sitting around 190%. This allowed them to kill all 5 of us in fountain, multiple times. And with upgraded Ankhs, any healing caused us to take 20% more damage from all sources. (This brings up the issue of nearly anyone being able to outdamage the foutain healing to begin with)

    Personally I think there need to be some changes to both gods and items to help with this particular issue. As it stands, healing feels incredibly weak, magical lifesteal seems really powerful, bordering on broken, and physical damage gods with heals feel somewhat obsolete since there are no physical healing buffing items, only magical.

    Please discuss how you feel about this. I'm curious to how other people think what the state of healing is in. I'm aware healing is one of those difficult things to balance out on Smite cause, in the past, its either been stupidly powerful to the point where people would only play those with healing abilities, or they are completely obsolete.

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    Member Follower DeMasterz92's Avatar
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    as you said, it's pretty difficult to balance healing. I know what your're saying about being usless in a fight if you cannot heal neither do damage.

    But I think that mages like Hel and chang'e as some other things in their kit to help them do something else healing. For ex. hel has a CC immunity AoE effect and a slow and prot.reduction AoE in her 2, and a mov. speed buff on her 3. It's not too much I know, but better than nothing. Chang'e still has antihealing on her 3 and her ult AoE stun.
    Ra has a lot of burst damage.
    Aprho has ticks so she can shred prot with her 2 and she has a stun and an invincibility in her ult, not too much again, I know.

    When the enemy team builds antiheal they have to give up other items that could be useful ; I know that pestilence is still very powerful, like divine ruin and other antiheal but BoH or a spear of deso are better item in general for their better passive and stats.

    Idk if Hi-rez really should nerf antiheal or not, Im not so expert in conquest tho

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    Member Follower syrenadragon's Avatar
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    i think the items are ok but i think what hirez should do is that there is a antiheal/ healing limit like 50 or 75%

    because right now you need 3 items divine ruin, beatstick and pestilence and you cant heal anything... it seems pretty bad

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    This is why you do not build healers to heal even more. I see blue boots, chronos, rod of asplec, without pen items. You need obsidian (and flat pen as well) on both hel and change (myb aphro as well I do not play her) unless you are in a team that builds around you having Crown, that can reset and heal up and go again with bruiser builds of their own so they can trade beneficially in a fight. I think that needs a well coordinated team to play efficiently around healing crown builds. In pubs if you cannot heal well atleast make sure you can deal the dmg or you just lost the game. The healing of all healers is good enough if you have good power, no need for rod of asplec. So the only Gods that I think Asplec can be good on is Sylvanus and Terra who are building support builds as they will lack in power and can use the extra heal it provides, also Sylv probably do not mind the extra ms.

    Get rid of Rod of asplec and build normal mage burst builds. Change ult the whole enemy team and just kill them.

    Also in s3 and s4 people were really lax on getting antiheal items. These days ppl actually get antiheal a lot so its no the free win it used to be.

    Its not that items focusing on making your heal better are bad, they are good but if enemy gets 100% antiheal they give you nothing, so they are way risky to pickup when you could have had pene to deal way more dmg instead.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 12-09-2018 at 07:57 AM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Honestly these days i only see Rod of Asclepius last item on Aphro, Sylvanus, or a guardian who's gonna stick to the healer.
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    Junior Member Cupidhead HeroicSkipper's Avatar
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    Antiheal should affect lifesteal more than heals, and shouldn't affect hp5. Lifesteal is in combat healing which would be affected by antiheal the most and is built to be countered while a heal can be anywhere, even out of combat where antiheal is not affected and is mostly attached to gods as part of their kit besides stone of gaia and mail of renewal. healing numbers should be reduced to where if you want to heal as much as now, you must get Rod of Asclepius. Hp5 is nice to have and certain gods have Hp5 as part of their kit or passive which can help early on but for some reason antiheal affects it making Hp5 much less useful later. The Hp5 items are generally used for their passives at this point and not because they have Hp5. Stone of Gaia and Mail of Renewal are really the ones focused on sustain when the item tree is Health and Hp5.

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    Senior Member Honoured VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroicSkipper View Post
    Antiheal should affect lifesteal more than heals, and shouldn't affect hp5. Lifesteal is in combat healing which would be affected by antiheal the most and is built to be countered while a heal can be anywhere, even out of combat where antiheal is not affected and is mostly attached to gods as part of their kit besides stone of gaia and mail of renewal. healing numbers should be reduced to where if you want to heal as much as now, you must get Rod of Asclepius. Hp5 is nice to have and certain gods have Hp5 as part of their kit or passive which can help early on but for some reason antiheal affects it making Hp5 much less useful later. The Hp5 items are generally used for their passives at this point and not because they have Hp5. Stone of Gaia and Mail of Renewal are really the ones focused on sustain when the item tree is Health and Hp5.
    Klaatu Barada Nikto
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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroicSkipper View Post
    Antiheal should affect lifesteal more than heals, and shouldn't affect hp5. Lifesteal is in combat healing which would be affected by antiheal the most and is built to be countered while a heal can be anywhere, even out of combat where antiheal is not affected and is mostly attached to gods as part of their kit besides stone of gaia and mail of renewal. healing numbers should be reduced to where if you want to heal as much as now, you must get Rod of Asclepius. Hp5 is nice to have and certain gods have Hp5 as part of their kit or passive which can help early on but for some reason antiheal affects it making Hp5 much less useful later. The Hp5 items are generally used for their passives at this point and not because they have Hp5. Stone of Gaia and Mail of Renewal are really the ones focused on sustain when the item tree is Health and Hp5.
    Lifesteal is lower then heals so I don't know what you mean. 2 anti heal items on a team completely shut down any lifesteal tactics and also thorns can help with it.

    High hp5 can be extremely annoying, yes it should fall under antiheal rules.

    And no healer mages are good particularly cause power means dmg and bigger heals. What smite needs isn't healers that do nothing unless they bought x +heal items that are worthless in every other aspect when enemy bring antiheal.

    This is why you do not pick vamana with a zhong and a ra and a xing and a rama with devos. You are begging enemy to counter half ure teams utility with 2 items. Heal and sustain in a comp should be enough for enemy to have to deal with while not countering your whole team. Like a single vamana and lifesteal hunter can be enough. Or if you have a xing and a fenrir in a comp without healers then chances enemy will focus on dealing with your healing is really low, then you could even pick upp gaia or renewal and make sustain and healing a problem for them they didn't think they would have to deal with.
    Rocking the boat

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    Junior Member Cupidhead HeroicSkipper's Avatar
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    Lifesteal is lower than heals, but what I'm saying is healing should be nerfed because most forms can be done out of combat. Heals for the most part are connected to kits and with a nerf to heals should affect heals less. There should be more calculation with heals rather than spam it to full due to needing to use more mana, but with the benefit of it still doing work against antiheal. More focus on in combat healing and just being in combat in general. I get Rod of Asclepius isn't needed to improve heals if you have a ton of power, but would make it more used just for the fact that in combat healing is boosted. I want that item to be a must if you want to heal the same amount otherwise why not just grab Tahuti

    Hp5 is a much slower form of sustain, but its constant. When in combat it is negligible because late game if you fully invest into Hp5 for some reason you at most get 100 health every 5 seconds, while on average most are going to get around 35 Hp5. Either way that amount is gonna be bursted down quickly. But even if your team doesn't have a healer this allows the support or solo to initiate more often.

    I love what they are doing to solo lane to make it less passive with that new camp, but making a more aggressive meta could help the game move faster and just be more fun.

    Also when you say high Hp5 can be annoying is it the Hp5 or is it Stone of Gaia?
    Last edited by HeroicSkipper; 01-19-2019 at 08:13 PM.

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    Senior Member Honoured LinkNightblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroicSkipper View Post
    Also when you say high Hp5 can be annoying is it the Hp5 or is it Stone of Gaia?
    I imagine its the passives on Gaia. You get hit with a knockup and you restore A LOT of health. Doesn't seem like it when it says its only 10% or something, but along with the passive being 2% per second, suddenly you have a ridiculous amount of regeneration.

    I love the fact that this thread was recently revived, I really want to hear more discussion on the current healing issues and where everyone will think its going to go in Season 6.

    Something someone said recently on Reddit I think was that healers will always be subpar with how good antiheal is right now and the fact that it has no cap to it. I wouldn't mind seeing an antiheal cap in all honesty, and that would allow the current antiheal items to experience a shift. Lower antihealing passive, but bigger base stats. That way the item is viable regardless if you're going against a healer or not, and with a lower antiheal amount of each of these items, it would actually take a team (or at least 3 people) to cap out the antiheal, or by playing specific gods like Odin, Serqet, Chang'e, Bacchus, Medusa, etc. Such a cap would also allow the healers in smite to get additional utility to their healing abilities provided they don't already have something (Hel gets something on her AoE heal and Aphro gets something, but Ra and Chang'e wouldn't since they already do additional things).

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