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Thread: Sooo... What's Cerberus' ult CC supposed to be????

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    I know how banishes work and that you can only be affected by damage and heals over time that were already on you, but if you're trying to say then it's a knockup, well, wrong, because if it is no way the ult is a banish because you can be dealt damage and there is NO banish works like that, then as you can beads its knockup and there is NO knockup you can cleanse once applied, then it can't be a knockup. But in fact you can counter this with a knockup immune ability, so it is just a mess of CC types and I think they should take a look at it.
    A typical knock up moves you from point A to point B. That change of position can not be cleansed except by very few mechanics (awilix ult, jing wei midair dash). This is what makes knock up immune to beads.

    Cerberus ult uses hybrid CC(as it says in the description). His knockup does NOT move you from point A to point B, because his pull takes over as soon as you've been moved from point A(when his little targeter appears for him to pick where you land). You've always been able to beads a pull. His actual knock up is extremely brief.

    Regardless, it does not share any traits with a banish. Yes you can cleanse his pull, just like you can cleanse ANY pull. This is irrelevant. What a banish actually DOES is pretty specific, and Cerberus' ult doesn't share any of the proper traits.

    Again, while you are in the air waiting to be pulled you are ALREADY in his pull. You are NOT in a knock up while hovering in the air(just like when awilix ult grabs you and you hover in place for a second you are already in her pull). Cerberus has his little red targeter basically as soon as he knocks everyone up, meaning they are already in the pull(which you can beads from). Simultaneous CC does not mean either one didn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    A typical knock up moves you from point A to point B. That change of position can not be cleansed except by very few mechanics (awilix ult, jing wei midair dash). This is what makes knock up immune to beads.

    Cerberus ult uses hybrid CC(as it says in the description). His knockup does NOT move you from point A to point B, because his pull takes over as soon as you've been moved from point A(when his little targeter appears for him to pick where you land). You've always been able to beads a pull. His actual knock up is extremely brief.

    Regardless, it does not share any traits with a banish. Yes you can cleanse his pull, just like you can cleanse ANY pull. This is irrelevant. What a banish actually DOES is pretty specific, and Cerberus' ult doesn't share any of the proper traits.

    Again, while you are in the air waiting to be pulled you are ALREADY in his pull. You are NOT in a knock up while hovering in the air(just like when awilix ult grabs you and you hover in place for a second you are already in her pull). Cerberus has his little red targeter basically as soon as he knocks everyone up, meaning they are already in the pull(which you can beads from). Simultaneous CC does not mean either one didn't happen.
    I've been saying it is hybrid CC all the time long. And I've been able to beads the knockup anytime, I didn't find that 'brief period when you can't beads' that you say. You can beads his ult at the very beginning, when it's supposed to be a knockup still and not a pull. That's my point. Its ult so avoidable and the rest of its kit that's pretty garbage is what makes it underperform and have no specific lane at the moment, in my opinion.
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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead RhodosGuard's Avatar
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    Cerbs Ult is basically a reverted Ares ult with a different type of CC.
    He activates something, it applies a cc and damage and after a short time moves you somewhere else.
    With Ares it all happens at one specific point.

    I dont see how his ult is any worse than Ares.
    You can bead out of Ares ult and still get damaged. You can bead out of Cerbs ult and will still be damaged. What beads avoid is you getting dislocated and that there's a short delay before ares applies his damage.

    If Beads didnt keep cerb from throwing you around he'd probably replace Ares.
    Already most guardians ults out-cd beads. And then being unable to bead Cerbs ult anyway would be terrible.

    Also, I dont think his kit is that bad.
    He got an innate Pest that heals him. He got Ares Flamethrower but with an inubilt slow and Resistance shred. He has a stun with good damage. and he got a leap with heals if he hits. So the way I see it, his kit is actually pretty good.

    tl;dr
    It would be inconsequent and unbalanced if Cerbs Ult was not beadable like all the other potentially-full-team dislocation CC ults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodosGuard View Post
    Cerbs Ult is basically a reverted Ares ult with a different type of CC.
    He activates something, it applies a cc and damage and after a short time moves you somewhere else.
    With Ares it all happens at one specific point.

    I dont see how his ult is any worse than Ares.
    You can bead out of Ares ult and still get damaged. You can bead out of Cerbs ult and will still be damaged. What beads avoid is you getting dislocated and that there's a short delay before ares applies his damage.

    If Beads didnt keep cerb from throwing you around he'd probably replace Ares.
    Already most guardians ults out-cd beads. And then being unable to bead Cerbs ult anyway would be terrible.

    Also, I dont think his kit is that bad.
    He got an innate Pest that heals him. He got Ares Flamethrower but with an inubilt slow and Resistance shred. He has a stun with good damage. and he got a leap with heals if he hits. So the way I see it, his kit is actually pretty good.

    tl;dr
    It would be inconsequent and unbalanced if Cerbs Ult was not beadable like all the other potentially-full-team dislocation CC ults.
    Yeah, because what you're looking for in a support is damage.. Who cares about setup for your team if you can deal a little bit of damage...

    His one is a single-target stun so conditional you and skilled shot you better than count on it. The two is good but everyone cuts it off. And the ult is so avoidable by so many ways. His kit is good on the paper, but in the practice it's hard to confirm and easy to avoid or counter. Also he's got no lane to go. He lacks CC and utility for support. There are so many way better solo laners there is no reason to pick him up. And jungle is just troll. Everyone saying he's OP before his release while I've been saying he's trash all the time. Funny, but trash. I particularly enjoy playing him from time to time but now go and watch where pros are placing him in the tier lists... Looks like I was right.
    Last edited by NervousCrysis; 02-13-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    Yeah, because what you're looking for in a support is damage.. Who cares about setup for your team if you can deal a little bit of damage...
    Tell me dear, where in this does Areas have more setup, but less damage than cerb?
    He got a slow on his chain that he can repeat, but the slow doesnt stack the damage does.
    Cerb got a non-repeatable less damaging skill that in return stuns.

    I think a stun is a better setup than a slow, while being able to chain 2-3 chains results in less setup but shittons of damage if timed correctly.
    Ares got an AoE Defense Buff. But a "I get power for Auras" passive while cerb reduces healing and heals for a part of what he reduces, while his second ability shreds defenses which is, I guess, not setupy enough. (psht, your teammates can abuse shredded resists)

    Ares got a Flamethrower. Just that. WoW.
    Cerb has self-sustain. A completely shitty thing for a tank to have.

    And their ults. pretty much the same. Just that cerbs damage is instant and ares has to wait for it. But the CC component for both skills:
    Is delayed and can be beaded.
    You might argue that Cerbs is even better because if you dont bead it, you are open for attack before you are displaced.

    So if cerb is bad, Ares is worse.
    And you can do that with a lot of the tanks actually.

    Lets take Xing.
    1. Ability with self sustain. cerbs 3
    2. Single target hard cc - cerbs 1
    3. gap closer - cerbs 3
    4. Beadable Mass CC - cerbs ult
    Passive: Provides more sustain - cerb passive

    I dont see how his kit makes him worse than those two, when you can basically equate all of cerbs abilities to one of the others.

    I guess whoever created this thread was salty that their cerb ult was always beaded but they also took the road of not building CD to make sure they cant all the time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodosGuard View Post
    Tell me dear, where in this does Areas have more setup, but less damage than cerb?
    He got a slow on his chain that he can repeat, but the slow doesnt stack the damage does.
    Cerb got a non-repeatable less damaging skill that in return stuns.

    I think a stun is a better setup than a slow, while being able to chain 2-3 chains results in less setup but shittons of damage if timed correctly.
    Ares got an AoE Defense Buff. But a "I get power for Auras" passive while cerb reduces healing and heals for a part of what he reduces, while his second ability shreds defenses which is, I guess, not setupy enough. (psht, your teammates can abuse shredded resists)

    Ares got a Flamethrower. Just that. WoW.
    Cerb has self-sustain. A completely shitty thing for a tank to have.

    And their ults. pretty much the same. Just that cerbs damage is instant and ares has to wait for it. But the CC component for both skills:
    Is delayed and can be beaded.
    You might argue that Cerbs is even better because if you dont bead it, you are open for attack before you are displaced.

    So if cerb is bad, Ares is worse.
    And you can do that with a lot of the tanks actually.

    Lets take Xing.
    1. Ability with self sustain. cerbs 3
    2. Single target hard cc - cerbs 1
    3. gap closer - cerbs 3
    4. Beadable Mass CC - cerbs ult
    Passive: Provides more sustain - cerb passive

    I dont see how his kit makes him worse than those two, when you can basically equate all of cerbs abilities to one of the others.

    I guess whoever created this thread was salty that their cerb ult was always beaded but they also took the road of not building CD to make sure they cant all the time.
    Xing's 1 doesn't have self sustain, he does damage over time and reduces the enemy's basic attack damage. His gap closer also gives him extra protections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodosGuard View Post
    Tell me dear, where in this does Areas have more setup, but less damage than cerb?
    He got a slow on his chain that he can repeat, but the slow doesnt stack the damage does.
    Cerb got a non-repeatable less damaging skill that in return stuns.

    I think a stun is a better setup than a slow, while being able to chain 2-3 chains results in less setup but shittons of damage if timed correctly.
    Ares got an AoE Defense Buff. But a "I get power for Auras" passive while cerb reduces healing and heals for a part of what he reduces, while his second ability shreds defenses which is, I guess, not setupy enough. (psht, your teammates can abuse shredded resists)

    Ares got a Flamethrower. Just that. WoW.
    Cerb has self-sustain. A completely shitty thing for a tank to have.

    And their ults. pretty much the same. Just that cerbs damage is instant and ares has to wait for it. But the CC component for both skills:
    Is delayed and can be beaded.
    You might argue that Cerbs is even better because if you dont bead it, you are open for attack before you are displaced.

    So if cerb is bad, Ares is worse.
    And you can do that with a lot of the tanks actually.

    Lets take Xing.
    1. Ability with self sustain. cerbs 3
    2. Single target hard cc - cerbs 1
    3. gap closer - cerbs 3
    4. Beadable Mass CC - cerbs ult
    Passive: Provides more sustain - cerb passive

    I dont see how his kit makes him worse than those two, when you can basically equate all of cerbs abilities to one of the others.

    I guess whoever created this thread was salty that their cerb ult was always beaded but they also took the road of not building CD to make sure they cant all the time.
    To begin with, I don't know why you compare him with Ares all the time, like he is in much better spot or I said anything about Ares. However if you want to do that comparison so badly I do actually think Ares is better because his chains are easier to hit than the Cerb venomous spit and deal more damage while also are a potential slow + creeple to 3 people and not a single target stun. His two greatly increase your allies protections and also his ultimate is more usefull in my opinion, because yup, you'll beads Ares the first time, but you're fucked the next one. Ares's ult has no casting time, so blink + ult is far more effective on Ares than Cerb, since he casts it for a while and you have more gap to jump, that skipping the fact you can immune it in more ways that you are able against Ares. So yeah, in my opinion we're pretty much talking about a weaker version of a god that's not really in a god spot in Season 5.

    I don't know how you dare comparing Xing with Cerb LOL.

    1. Fair amount of damage. Self sustain. Less damage for enemy ADCs.
    2. AoE knockup + root.
    3. Amazing escape/chase ability.
    4. Big AoE hard CC ult great for combos.

    I didn't say Cerb's ult is shit just because you can beads it. That's not a problem. Beads once, get raped in the next fight. I think I made really clear the problem is you can immune to it with antiknockups too and the ult is so predictable that you're hardly picking up a god with a jump or dash, which is the case for the most of them. Let's read properly.

    By the way. I did start this thread and my intention was to try and make clear how Cerb's ult CC works exactly because I think it's confusing. I'm not really tilted about his ult being better or worse because I don't really play him or like him that much. The thread just derailed into other topics as usual and I'm just telling my opinion about it.
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    If it can be knockup immuned, it's a knockup. It's in the name. No Rocket Science.

    Dont know why you need a thread for this.

    And I compared them because you called his kit shit, even though it's more or less pretty conform with guardians.
    He's a more aggressive guardian that counters heals, maybe not everyone is used to how he plays yet.
    I like him. All he needs is a bit more room to play with his 1 since it takes almost perfect prediction and aim to hit the stun, when other guardians can apply their cc without any problems as long as they're in proper range.

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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodosGuard View Post
    If it can be knockup immuned, it's a knockup. It's in the name. No Rocket Science.

    Dont know why you need a thread for this.

    And I compared them because you called his kit shit, even though it's more or less pretty conform with guardians.
    He's a more aggressive guardian that counters heals, maybe not everyone is used to how he plays yet.
    I like him. All he needs is a bit more room to play with his 1 since it takes almost perfect prediction and aim to hit the stun, when other guardians can apply their cc without any problems as long as they're in proper range.
    Yeah, it is a knockup that you CAN beads once in the air. THAT'S the reason of the thread. Really, people don't read posts or have none reading comprehension and come to teach lessons like genious...
    Last edited by NervousCrysis; 02-14-2018 at 05:39 AM.
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    How many knockups have you seen that you can beads? The reason of the thread is the mix of contradictory CC he's got on its ult that makes it easier to counter in various ways and I think it's bad for Cerb. Love people coming to read last post of the topic to 'open everyone's mind'...
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