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Thread: More True Support Guardians in 2018

  1. #11
    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead SaintDemonbane's Avatar
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    I think in season 5 we should start calling guardians guardians instead of supports. You don't refer to all warriors as "soloers" very often, do you? Probably not, because the warriors can do more than solo lane. So can guardians.

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    As a support main, my favorite type of Guardian's are the aggressive bruiser type. If you can't secure kills or farm effectively, things can start to feel helpless. If you get behind you basically stay behind. If they do decided to make more "true support" Guardians. I would hope that they give them decent clear at the very least. I would play a low damage Guardian that could clear wave and jungle camps effectively as well a CC. They might even give him a Scylla type ultimate or execute type passive for kill securing.

    On another note...does anyone else wish Nox was a Guardian? Change her stats a bit, maybe give her a small cloud of shadow ravens to fill out her hit box a bit and she's a perfect fit.

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    Senior Member Honoured Saerireth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKeksalot View Post
    If you pick Ymir in the tutorials, the game gives a shpeal about guardians like it does with the other free gods, and explicitly says guardians have low damage.
    My point was you'll still have eg cabrakans going around 2 shotting mages with his 1 and 2 if he has poly, 4 shotting them if he doesn't. I've been witness to this numerous times and it's not pretty lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saerireth View Post
    My point was you'll still have eg cabrakans going around 2 shotting mages with his 1 and 2 if he has poly, 4 shotting them if he doesn't. I've been witness to this numerous times and it's not pretty lol
    Yeah, but because the game doesn't tell you this, people seem to have been ignorant up until now that, even if you just build pen, you can contribute a lot to a kill.
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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramiell24 View Post
    As a support main, my favorite type of Guardian's are the aggressive bruiser type. If you can't secure kills or farm effectively, things can start to feel helpless. If you get behind you basically stay behind. If they do decided to make more "true support" Guardians. I would hope that they give them decent clear at the very least. I would play a low damage Guardian that could clear wave and jungle camps effectively as well a CC. They might even give him a Scylla type ultimate or execute type passive for kill securing.

    On another note...does anyone else wish Nox was a Guardian? Change her stats a bit, maybe give her a small cloud of shadow ravens to fill out her hit box a bit and she's a perfect fit.
    Of course, I don't mean guardians shouldn't be able to clear decently, even if ADC is another solo laner now due to their excessive early clearing what pushes them to hit late game too soon what I don't like, because I think that's not how MOBAs work... Regardessly, I mean I want to see more supports having specific skills for help, like Geb's shield or Khepri's revive, that allow them to stay in the backline and peel for their carries instead of having so many assets to apply damage and be punishing enemy's like the Cabra or Fafnir does. I don't say that's bad by its own, and I like both types of support, but I think it is bad when it's too much, and defensive guardians are without a doubt outclassed by offensive at the time. Also, defensive supports don't have to struggle with push, Khepri's got a great clearing and most guardians and characters in general use to get a skill for push, and I don't say that shouldn't be the case. Regarding jungle clearing for guardians, there is no point in having one farming camps alone in there while shits happen over the map, so that's unnecessary.

    With respect to Nox's role, I like to play her as a mage while having the option of going support for fun, in the first place, but I also like the fact Smite has become more open when it comes to classes and roles with the time and I don't want more gods to get their classes changed just because they can play various roles if not more people feeling creative about what to play and where, unless it is so extreme nobody ever plays them in their natural roles, which is absolutely not the case for Nox.
    Last edited by NervousCrysis; 01-13-2018 at 09:28 PM.
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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    I think you have a good analys of the situation.

    Yesterday I tried numbering true supportive Gods and the list ain't that long tbh.

    However I think Gods like Agni and Change also fall in supportive category there are more then at first glance that can support but if we talk about very defensive support no there are not that many and Cerb is certainly not one of them. So he wont fit in games that need a defensive guardian. He should probably be played with supportive mages like change and warriors that offer very good tank and peel like herc. Landing the 1 for stun is hard but especially on the defense, Cerberus wan'ts to charge forward to land his stun offensively so he needs setup for that ideally. I think "defensive" assassins like thor and serq could also work well with him. Cerb as solo tank in arena is very hard. Also we have Gods like nox who are super defensive and really do not need levels to bring what they got to the table for team yet we do not see them in duo lane. Is cerb pene applied on creeps? Then maybe you can lane him with a def mage in duo or mid.

    For me Cerb is all about his 1. It has a long stun duration and if it lands its great. However actually landing the stun is kinda hard and makes his skill ceiling way up, it has good pathing, range and speed but the aoe in which it stuns is a bit small. This makes his peel extremely unreliable and he is not a good defensive tank.

    The 2 is super strong on paper but it feels like you do not get proper defensive reduction on target? I thought it would be super OP but I haven't felt like it is, its kinda easy to interrupt. 60 prot shred sounds really good maybe I got the skill wrong or just suck at applying its stacks.

    Overall I think he is a nice release. The ult is good and fun to use, Ill save my judgement on balance until people get good with him. Cause I have only seen one half decent Cerberus so far and constantly getting blasted by his 1 is really rough to deal with.

    As for possible changes I do not mind a bit more noob friendly targeter for the 1 (bigger aoe stun range) for a trade off I could live with a shorter range on the spell.



    Very hard tbh, I hate good aggressive sylvs with dmg builds. But yeah its not for all games.
    I don't think Agni fits in the category of supportive mages. All he has it's a 1 second stun meant to help him confirm his damage. That's not even close to enough for a support. You need to deal damage with him.

    I'd also like to see more mages that can fit the warrior role in the solo. Mages that can't really forfeit the mid role like Chang'e or Aphro and have the potential of both dealing damage and supporting teammates scream 'Warrior!', but early metas make it really hard for them to find success. I think Season 5 can change that with the larger map restricting the rotations and the speed buff being located in a safer spot.

    I feel the same about Cerb. I like it. It's fun to play and looks cool, but all of its hard CC is nearly the ult, since your one is not really something you can't rely on and you're very likely to always have someone getting your two cut off. For me, it's an Ares with better lane and worse teamfight potential but I don't see people picking it even over him. Its main CC is the ult, what you can jump out or beads for it takes a time to be casted and the rest of its CC is very conditional and avoidable. If you're looking for just damage, you don't pick a guardian. I think people just love to say every new god is OP even when it's not true, but time will say...
    Last edited by NervousCrysis; 01-13-2018 at 10:02 PM.
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    Senior Member Prestigious Necromancer776's Avatar
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    I totally agree. There’s like 5 true supports that are guardians, plus a couple of healers. Artio was a step in the right direction, but then they kinda reversed it with Cerb.

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    First off, I'm on board with Saint, the "support"-descriptor is overused and misapplied. In i.e. LoL Supports are really build with the idea of how a support can make life easier for another champion, whereas Guardians in Smite can work perfectly fine alone but they work significantly better when in a group. Someone like i.e. Leona for instance effectively has no passive unless some other player is nearby and capitalizes on it. And if Aphrodite were a LoL-champion her 1 probably wouldn't even do anything if not fired at an ally.

    That in mind I'm not quite sure what is meant with "true supports". If you mean gods with kits that work better in combination with team members, most guardians already have that. If you mean someone who's entire job is just to butter up the (perceived or actual) carry in the team, you can already do that with quite a number of gods (with Cerberus being rather the exception than the rule) but designing them specifically for that purpose is rather antithetical to the god design in Smite

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    How about a new guardian whose passive is an anti heal immunity aura, his 1 works like sprint, his 2 is a damage reduction buff, his 3 is like ymir's freeze, and his ult applies a heal and CC cleanse/immunity.

    There you go, a pure support god. When his allies are dead he will be completely useless, and when they are alive he'll be extremely annoying. Then when he tries to play solo instead of a premade team he'll get stuck with some poor team mates and be unable to do anything at all since all he can do is support.

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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbiter View Post
    First off, I'm on board with Saint, the "support"-descriptor is overused and misapplied. In i.e. LoL Supports are really build with the idea of how a support can make life easier for another champion, whereas Guardians in Smite can work perfectly fine alone but they work significantly better when in a group. Someone like i.e. Leona for instance effectively has no passive unless some other player is nearby and capitalizes on it. And if Aphrodite were a LoL-champion her 1 probably wouldn't even do anything if not fired at an ally.

    That in mind I'm not quite sure what is meant with "true supports". If you mean gods with kits that work better in combination with team members, most guardians already have that. If you mean someone who's entire job is just to butter up the (perceived or actual) carry in the team, you can already do that with quite a number of gods (with Cerberus being rather the exception than the rule) but designing them specifically for that purpose is rather antithetical to the god design in Smite
    With true supports, and it was explained, we mean guardians able to play the support role and have his kit oriented towards protecting and saving allies, which Smite lacks. If you don't know, since you seem to be much more of a LOL player, not all guardians in Smite can really play as support and even those who can have a very offensive kits intended to lock down enemies, annoy and deal damage, and not really support their own carries. Also there can be a missunderstanding since I know in LOL there are many mages designed to play the support role and do well in bot lane but in Smite supportive mages can't be played at all as support in a serious game for the most part. I hope there is more room for that in Season 5, but it has been impossible for the moment.

    To conclude, that's the request, to get more defensive guardians, since they are the ones to be played as support except for a couple of warriors and mages, so that's why people don't usually specify they are guardians because there is no much of a need for it, as defensive guardians are so few right now.
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