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Thread: Release Guan Yu compared to current Cu Chulainn

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    Member Worshipper JohnOfAllTrades's Avatar
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    Release Guan Yu compared to current Cu Chulainn

    Cu Chulainn Abilities

    Passive - When triggered changes your 1,2, and 4. Also gives a shield with 10 (+20 per level) health and 5 (+2 per level) power. ALSO, 15% of any mana items or MP5 would give is instead converted to health.

    Barbed Spear - Reduces enemy healing by 50% for 4s and stuns minions for 2s. Deals 75/135/195/255/315 (+45%) damage. Cooldown: 16/15/14/13/12s.

    Ground Slam - Roots enemies in a line and deals 75/135/195/255/315 (+45%) damage. Cooldown: 16/15/14/13/12s.

    Vent Anger - Always active in berserk form. 10/15/20/25/30 (+5%) damage every 0.5s. Increases your movement speed by 5%. Non-berserk duration: 6s. Cooldown: 6s

    Salmon's Leap - Short range leap with an area AND a line of damage. Deals 65/120/175/230/285 (+60%) damage. Cooldown: 16s.

    Furious Charge - Dash that knocks back enemies. Deals 65/120/175/230/285 (+60%) damage. Cooldown: 16s.

    Spear of Mortal Pain - Large area knockup and damage. Deals 175/250/325/400/475 (+65%) damage. Crowd Control immune while casting. Cooldown: 90s.

    War Cry - Large area tremble for 1s. Deals 175/250/325/400/475 (+65%) damage. Crowd Control immune while casting. Cooldown: 90s.

    Release Guan Yu Abilities (All information was found here: https://smite.gamepedia.com/SMITE_Cl...sion_0.1.944.1)

    Passive - 20 Physical and Magical Protections near structures.

    Tranquil Gift - 50/85/120/155/190 (+50%) heal. Lowers cooldowns by 2s when healing an ally. Cooldown: 6s.

    Warrior's Will - Dash that slows by 25%. 90/150/210/270/330 (+60%) damage. Lowers cooldowns by 2s when hitting enemies. Cooldown: 3s.

    Taolu Assault - Knockback immune channeled ability that lasts for 4s. 20/30/40/50/60 (+20%) damage every 0.4s. Shreds 10 protections and gains protections per hit(up to 30) for 3s.

    Tactician's Advantage - Slow, then silence, then stun for 2s for consecutive hits. 450/562.5/675/787.5/900 (+135%) damage. Crowd Control immune while casting.

    Rank 1 Damage Comparison

    Cu Chulainn

    Barbed Spear ----------- 75 (+45%)
    Ground Slam ------------ 75 (+45%)
    Non-Berserk Vent Anger - 120 (+60%)
    Salmon's Leap ---------- 65 (+60%)
    Furious Charge --------- 65 (+60%)
    Spear of Mortal Pain --- 175 (+65%)
    War Cry ---------------- 175 (+65%)

    Total ------------------ 750 (+400%)

    Guan Yu

    Warrior's Will --------- 90 (+60%)
    Taolu Assault ---------- 200 (+200%)
    Tactician's Advantage -- 450 (+135%)

    Total ------------------ 740 (+395%)


    Rank 5 Damage Comparison

    Cu Chulainn

    Barbed Spear ----------- 315 (+45%)
    Ground Slam ------------ 315 (+45%)
    Non-Berserk Vent Anger - 360 (+60%)
    Salmon's Leap ---------- 285 (+60%)
    Furious Charge --------- 285 (+60%)
    Spear of Mortal Pain --- 475 (+65%)
    War Cry ---------------- 475 (+65%)

    Total ------------------ 2,510 (+400%)

    Guan Yu

    Warrior's Will --------- 330 (+60%
    Taolu Assault ---------- 600 (+200%)
    Tactician's Advantage -- 900 (+135%)

    Total ------------------ 1,830 (+395%)

    Additional Effects Comparison

    Cu Chulainn - 30 to 410 health shield, 7 to 45 power buff 2s minion stun, 1s root, 6s of 5% extra movement speed, a knockup, and a 1s tremble.

    Guan Yu - 20 protections, 50 to 190 heal (plus scaling), two 2s cooldown reductions, 25% slow for 2s, knockback immunity for 4s, a slow for 2s, a possible silence for 2s, and a possible stun for 2s.

    This shows that the release Guan Yu that everybody feared had less base damage and scaling than the current broken god. On top of that, he actually even had (for the most part) less use in teamfights than a good Cu Chulainn has. Of course, I have to point out that the Cu Chulainn stats are all under the assumption that the player is good enough to manage their passive. Additionally, I didn't include all the extra damage Vent Anger would be dealing while berserk due to the impracticality of throwing it into the equation since its over a rather long duration. If you are interested, for the full duration of his berserk form, Vent Anger would deal 400 (+200%) at rank 1 or 1,200 (+200%) at rank 5. See why it would throw off the comparison? All together this information shows just WHY release Guan Yu is still considered the most overpowered even with Cu Chulainn being out. It wasn't the stats specifically, but the items (and power) he had available to him (as a magical god).

    TL;DR - Looking at just the numbers, Cu Chulainn beats release Guan Yu's damage and brings just as much extra stuff (such as CC and debuffs) as him too. The main difference between the two that makes people shudder at the thought of Guan Yu is simply the items he had available to him.

  2. #2
    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Release Guan was a magical god, though; meaning he got a shitton more damage from power, and all of it was ability burst. He also had 600 damage with 200% scaling and a protection shred on a normal ability. His normal combo, without his ult, would deal 1900 damage in today's meta with Magus and 400 power; most of which will go through because of the insane prot shred. That's more than most ults. If that did not get him a kill o a squishy, then his ult could deal some 1400 damage on its own. This was on a tank with sustain and an escape. If Cu Chulainn wants to do the same, it's going to take him much longer because he's more DoT-reliant and needs to weave in some AA's; and he can't go into nearly as much pen or power because he's a warrior; and he can only do so whenever his passive's up.

    Just throwing that out there.
    Last edited by SirKeksalot; 12-12-2017 at 02:27 PM.
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    Based on what you listed as release Guan Yu, and it being magical... Dude did you even look at those cooldowns? That dash that slows opponents has a 3 second cool down and reduces cool downs by 2 seconds if you hit an enemy. So, it slows, and as a magical god he'd have access to g of isolation for a Mich worse slow, and its is what, every 3 seconds without CDR? Every 2 seconds with 40% CDR? And that is assuming the 2 second cool down reduction when you hit an enemy doesn't apply to itself.

    And then tranquil gift just removes his dash cool down simply by healing minions.... And with 40% CDR it has a 4 second cool down itself(2 seconds after that dash it just gave back to you).

    From what I'm reading, release Guan Yu was one of the biggest monsters you could ever imagine. I mean with how much spam you could pull off with that, his ultimate would have been going off all the time and it seems to offer some decent CC. And nobody would ever be escaping him with that dash....

    Now if only the current Guan Yu could get some scaling back on his heal so he could use it for more than just a small heal on minions.

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    You have no clue what you are comparing.

    Guan Yu had a 190 + 50% heal, right?

    On a 6s CD?

    With CDR that's 3.6s CD.

    After healing an ally, 1.6s CD.

    After dashing an enemy, 0s CD.

    With potentially 600 magical power.

    Guan could heal ~500 hp every 2s or so.

    While his 600 + 200% ability does more than Scylla's ultimate.

    While having the stats of a GUARDIAN.

    While having an ult that is a better version of Amaterasu's and also does 2k damage.

    You have no fucking clue.

    ~~~~

    The closest god to Release Guan would be full power release Artio, IF all of her scalings had +30% more, her base had +100 more, and her Cooldowns all got reduced by 4-5 seconds.

    MAYBE.

    Oh and her Ult would be hitting an enemy god with an ability reduces all Cooldowns by 2 seconds.
    What do I put here now?

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    Senior Member Chosen Spartan219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis View Post
    You have no clue what you are comparing.

    Guan Yu had a 190 + 50% heal, right?

    On a 6s CD?

    With CDR that's 3.6s CD.

    After healing an ally, 1.6s CD.

    After dashing an enemy, 0s CD.

    With potentially 600 magical power.

    Guan could heal ~500 hp every 2s or so.

    While his 600 + 200% ability does more than Scylla's ultimate.

    While having the stats of a GUARDIAN.

    While having an ult that is a better version of Amaterasu's and also does 2k damage.

    You have no fucking clue.

    ~~~~

    The closest god to Release Guan would be full power release Artio, IF all of her scalings had +30% more, her base had +100 more, and her Cooldowns all got reduced by 4-5 seconds.

    MAYBE.

    Oh and her Ult would be hitting an enemy god with an ability reduces all Cooldowns by 2 seconds.
    i wasnt at that time but the way you say it release guan yu sounds OP
    was he like release bellona? i heard she was OP too at release
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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan219 View Post
    i wasnt at that time but the way you say it release guan yu sounds OP
    was he like release bellona? i heard she was OP too at release
    Release Guan was the most overpowered god release ever.

    For more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comme...lease_guan_yu/

    Release Guan could 1v5 5 Release Bellonas and get a penta.
    What do I put here now?

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    I think your also forgetting about how the item system, map, buff camp mechanics, and God balance were completely different.

    For starters, Guan did magical damage, not physical. Add on to more that his Heal/Dash were 6s cooldowns that still had their cdr reductions for healing or dash through gods. Items like Wall of Absolution existed that could provide him with 60-105 physical protections in a single item. Many gods back in closed beta had very limited mobility. Relics were completely different and required gold. Anti heal items were laughably bad.

    Chu is/was op but with how far the game has advanced, he has realistic counter match ups. Guan didn't, the only way you were beating release Guan was if your release Guan was better than the other.

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    Member Worshipper JohnOfAllTrades's Avatar
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    I think everybody is missing a very important part of my post. I acknowledge that Guan was better. I acknowledge that his available items and the fact that he was Magical made him stronger. The only point of this post was for a direct comparison between damage numbers in a single ability rotation.

    Also, stop exaggerating and saying Guan could 1v5 release Bellona. That's just retarded to even suggest. Could he 1v1 her? Sure. 1v5? Only if the Bellona players are new to the game.

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    A Tragic Product of Swedish Advertising Demigod SirKeksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnOfAllTrades View Post
    I think everybody is missing a very important part of my post. I acknowledge that Guan was better. I acknowledge that his available items and the fact that he was Magical made him stronger. The only point of this post was for a direct comparison between damage numbers in a single ability rotation.
    But your point is that, somehow, a low-sustain tank with a long time needed to get off his maximum damage (which is only situational and takes a long time to prepare) and very little CC until his passive goes off is somehow more broken than a tankier, higher-and-more-consistently-damaging, more CC-focused god with better potential itemization.

    Cu Chulainn is not broken, nor is he OP. He has his strengths, but he's nowhere near as insane as release Guan.

    Also, stop exaggerating and saying Guan could 1v5 release Bellona. That's just retarded to even suggest. Could he 1v1 her? Sure. 1v5? Only if the Bellona players are new to the game.
    Considering how tanky he was, how low his CD's were, how much sustain he had, how much AoE CC his ult gave him, and how much damage he dealt, that's not actually an unreasonable assumption.
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    Member Worshipper JohnOfAllTrades's Avatar
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    What? First off, my whole point was just to compare the raw numbers of the two. Second, you act like his passive is hard to get off. If his passive was harder to trigger than maybe the argument could be made that he doesn't have enough CC without it. Third, that IS an unreasonable assumption. Stop blowing things out of proportion. Anti heal on a single one of the Bellona's would counter his sustain, plenty of pen on a couple of the Bellonas would counter any of his tankiness, Bellona is ALSO tank, AND a simple ult stun lock would shut him down in an instant. Stop acting like he was unkillable.

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