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Thread: What do you think of Crusher right now?

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    Lord of the Enigs Infamous Enigmatisty's Avatar
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    What do you think of Crusher right now?

    I feel like it's in the right step for a hybrid item that encourages both ability-based and AA-based builds, but the problem with hybrid items is that they are jacks-of-all-trades is that they don't have an outstanding advantage and offer too much little things that cannot make an impact without reinforcement from corresponding items. (Unless it's bloated as fuck like Pythag's)

    Exec being more cheaper than it before its price nerf practically rendered it nonexistent, but it's slowly getting better now that its competition has been toned down. But is it still worthy of the cost when the mace t1 and t2 items don't provide any of its benefits early on?
    I'm pretty much trying to reclaim my lost ELO and sticking to a few gods rn. Mostly playing Cern and maybe Daji.

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    It's a mid-lategame item on ability hunters imo.

    Skadi in particular I feel makes good use of it.
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    I'd love it if they changed its passive to work on any hit instead of just hitting gods. If that isn't enough of a buff they can make it trigger off of simply launching a basic attack, whether you hit something or not. That would likely be way too much though, and yet chronos pendant has its automatic effect so you could argue for it. It isn't like it doesn't already have a built in cool down or anything.

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    Lord of the Enigs Infamous Enigmatisty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis View Post
    It's a mid-lategame item on ability hunters imo.

    Skadi in particular I feel makes good use of it.
    Skadi can just get Jotunn's which provides 20% CDR right off the bat and Ody's which gives 40% AS for 200g less, though. With her you're better off getting as much power as you can from the high-power items like Shifter's or BF for Kaldr and Crusher doesn't quite compare.

    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    I'd love it if they changed its passive to work on any hit instead of just hitting gods. If that isn't enough of a buff they can make it trigger off of simply launching a basic attack, whether you hit something or not. That would likely be way too much though, and yet chronos pendant has its automatic effect so you could argue for it. It isn't like it doesn't already have a built in cool down or anything.
    Chronos is pretty much the core CDR item while Jotunn's would be the phys equivalent. Giving it 1s every basic would make it too much like Chronos (and more cheaper) which isn't good when we have hunters with high AS steroids like Izanami. I think taking a baby step like 1s for every 3s or 2s every 5s would be a gentle but good push for it.
    I'm pretty much trying to reclaim my lost ELO and sticking to a few gods rn. Mostly playing Cern and maybe Daji.

    If you ask for balance changes on a god without a reason that can be properly justified, then this is the place to train for persuasion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigmatisty View Post
    Skadi can just get Jotunn's which provides 20% CDR right off the bat and Ody's which gives 40% AS for 200g less, though. With her you're better off getting as much power as you can from the high-power items like Shifter's or BF for Kaldr and Crusher doesn't quite compare.



    Chronos is pretty much the core CDR item while Jotunn's would be the phys equivalent. Giving it 1s every basic would make it too much like Chronos (and more cheaper) which isn't good when we have hunters with high AS steroids like Izanami. I think taking a baby step like 1s for every 3s or 2s every 5s would be a gentle but good push for it.
    I only suggested it trigger off of any hit not every hit. It already has a cool down of 5 seconds. However, it only triggers when you hit an enemy god with a basic attack. If it triggered when you hit anything with a basic attack instead, it'd be a much more powerful item. Typically you hit enemies with basics in bursts, and there can be a lot of time after that first 5 seconds till you hit an enemy god again. It working on any hit means you are going to get that proc a lot closer to its 5 sec internal cooldown. Since it doesn't provide any actual CDR like chronos pendant, having the proc at half the time isn't even that bad. Though they could always increase the cool down if need be.

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    No, Pen > Raw Power.

    Even on Skadi.

    Like, you know how I did the comparison of dps between Trans and Crusher? Crusher won.

    If Trans doesn't win, Shifters won't.

    You get Shifters for the passive and the defense, the high power is a bonus.

    My build is like, Boots, Trans, Crusher/Jotuns, Jotuns/Crusher, Titans, Asi/Brawler/Bloodforge/Mantle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis View Post
    No, Pen > Raw Power.

    Even on Skadi.

    Like, you know how I did the comparison of dps between Trans and Crusher? Crusher won.

    If Trans doesn't win, Shifters won't.

    You get Shifters for the passive and the defense, the high power is a bonus.

    My build is like, Boots, Trans, Crusher/Jotuns, Jotuns/Crusher, Titans, Asi/Brawler/Bloodforge/Mantle.
    Isn't that only true against squishies?(crusher giving more than trans) against someone with high defense, flat pen isn't going to be that beneficial. Not saying pen isn't better than raw power overall, but you need to keep in mind how much pen crusher is actually giving too. Pen in general will always have a higher value than raw power, like how gold has a higher value than grass(at least, usually... Some people might value grass more than gold I suppose). But 15 pen doesn't always match up to 100+ raw power. Just like a gram of gold might not be worth fields of grass.

    15 pen vs 15 raw power, not even a competition, pen wins. That just isn't the case here, and the more defense your opponent has the less value each individual point of pen is worth in comparison to raw power. (With the exception of an opponent somehow having 0 defense makes pen worth nothing as opposed to gaining worth)

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damienmc90 View Post
    Isn't that only true against squishies?(crusher giving more than trans) against someone with high defense, flat pen isn't going to be that beneficial. Not saying pen isn't better than raw power overall, but you need to keep in mind how much pen crusher is actually giving too. Pen in general will always have a higher value than raw power, like how gold has a higher value than grass(at least, usually... Some people might value grass more than gold I suppose). But 15 pen doesn't always match up to 100+ raw power. Just like a gram of gold might not be worth fields of grass.

    15 pen vs 15 raw power, not even a competition, pen wins. That just isn't the case here, and the more defense your opponent has the less value each individual point of pen is worth in comparison to raw power. (With the exception of an opponent somehow having 0 defense makes pen worth nothing as opposed to gaining worth)
    No, I compared them vs 325 prot 3000 hp (for qins build) and 200 prot 3500 hp.

    Crusher won in both.

    You forget Crusher also gives 20% attackspeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis View Post
    No, I compared them vs 325 prot 3000 hp (for qins build) and 200 prot 3500 hp.

    Crusher won in both.

    You forget Crusher also gives 20% attackspeed.
    OK, so comparing which works best in a specific build. But what if you compare them as single items where you only have 1 item instead of 6 against 325 defense? You know, so you don't have a bunch of raw power elsewhere taking advantage of the 15 pen? Comparing within a build is great and all, when you are deciding on what you want in a specific build, but if you are talking individual items it can end up very differently.

    Flat pen isn't worth as much as raw power the more defense your opponent has.

    On the other hand, pen in general is amplified by how much raw power you've built.

    Naturally for a full build this is a balancing act, and since most items are going to give raw power(including crusher itself) pen is usually going to have more value.

    If you were stuck using a build with less offensive options however, crusher won't always outperform trans for DPS.(except against squishies, really hard to beat flat pen against squishies)

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    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Why would you compare individual items outside of a full build though?

    Items are made to synergize with each other and multiply their overall potential.

    At full build, Crusher is better than any raw-power-with-no-other-offensive-stat item in the game for dps. No really, cuz that list is like, Trans/Blood/Shifter XD.

    But still.

    Besides.

    Crusher gives Skadi everything she wants.

    Power

    More pen. MORE PEN nomnomnom

    Enough attackspeed to function as a semi-normal adc when Kaldr's reviving himself if needed. Plus getting a potential +1 attack off during your 1's debuff duration.

    Occasional clutch CDR.

    Cheap.
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