Don't Let Fafnir Pay to be the Best/Protect Net Neutrality

[RonanTheGreat]

Thanks for the oligopoly info. And I'm writing on my phone and I can't multiquote properly so pardon the multi post.

I don't think it's so much as not wanting equality as it wasn't encouraging growth.

If I was understanding correctly, AT&T back in the 80's agreed to be a government regulated monopoly essentially. They were going to be broken up but agreed to offer equal service to all, and in exchange maintained their status. In order to keep equality across all regions, they were forced to offer the worst quality service to all to be able to keep being cost effective and avoid government penalty.

After removing the restrictions, it allowed the company to offer better service to those willing to pay. Which consequently means developing better and more efficent technology to satisfy the higher paying customers. Initially the 1% benefit , but the rest of society receives it eventually.(So goes the argument I read.)

I don't like the P2W aspect it introduces or the idea that the 1% will constantly be ahead in terms of technology. I do see some merit though in the idea companies can reinvest to develop new tech.

The equality was to do with service provision, in that if they have a flat rate they charge it should be expected that the service be the same, which I know it isn't, but the point remains.

As for reinvestment, sorry to be the one to tell you this, but in an age where profiteering is rampant and customers are seen as secondary to shareholders, the first thing that suffers is quality. As for the more competition thing, err no. That simply will not happen. You already have a massive market that is shared by a few. Short of Elon Musk buying a horse in that race, any and all smaller alternatives will be swallowed up or crushed before they have a chance to be established.

Btw "cost effective" in the sense you refer to with AT&T had nothing to do with shit service provision or regulation. A choice of one is hardly a choice, and a monopoly doesn't need to provide good service. Its the only service available, therefore there is no comparative template for consumers to make.

Capitalism or free market enterprise is the way to go, no doubt, but to have true capitalism you need choice. The more choice, the better for the consumer. It breeds both innovation and it can effectively regulate itself if there is enough choice. Price fixing is nigh impossible if you have a plethora of options, as someone will always say to themselves " a few bucks off their bill to keep their business with me is better than no bucks at all", but sadly your internet provision is held by some very powerful conglomerates with some very powerful friends and even more powerful lobbying groups, and I can assure you they don't want to share with anymore than they have to.

[Carbon124]

[...]As for the more competition thing, err no. That simply will not happen. You already have a massive market that is shared by a few. Short of Elon Musk buying a horse in that race, any and all smaller alternatives will be swallowed up or crushed before they have a chance to be established.

I agree the market state is in a terrible place. Would you rather see them all broken up?(I'm leaning this direction I think. At least until I learn more.) I'm curious as to what other potential solutions there might be. I see some positives of regulating the already giant monopolies that exist. I just don't see how it's actively trying to prevent them from occurring. (Which is what everyone seems to be concerned with)The monopolies continued to play by the rules and nothing truly changed. The market stagnated and the big companies continued to be the big companies. At least that's what it looked like to me, a fairly casual observer.

Perhaps by de-regulating it, it could spur competition. (very unlikely as that may be, it's a step in the right direction I think. We are very far from a fix, but I don't think throwing a blanket over the ever growing monopolies and calling it okay because they are "regulated" is the way to go and this at least makes an attempt. Which is a pretty bad state to be in when part of the argument is "well we are trying.")

[zecleria]

Playing Devils advocate here:
Assuming a company decides to start making these packages everyone talks about, would they not be committing industrial/economic suicide? Nobody would pay for them and not to mention the PR disaster that would ensue. Stock would fall along with other sources of income. The 1% that could afford it would be drastically outweighed by the 99% that would cancel the service.

I agree the internet should be open to all as should all the information it contains. However, mandating people who live in the country (such as myself) get the same exact connection speed as people who live in the city is not realistic. It forces the company into a corner and as a result, everyone gets terrible connection speeds because the company can't for whatever reason provide someone who lives in the Rocky Mountains the same quality Internet as someone who lives in NYC. (Which is what part of NN does I think. I could be wrong but from what I read the government regulates the industry to prevent monopolization of it. I have done limited research which is why I'm here trying to find out more.)

I'm still somewhat undecided on the topic, but the "outrage engine" turns away moderates who could be persuaded.

there is nothing to undecide. this has absolutely 0 potential benefits to public cus theyre not changing the system, theyre removing a line that mandates that internet is a basic utility.(it didnt force isp's to provide same internet speed everywhere btw.)

and sorry but if you really think people have a choice in picking their isp's, youre dead wrong. vast majority of usa doesnt have more than two choices in general and a huge part literally doesnt have more than one. and you simply cant drop internet in this day and age.

[Derajalen]

I don't think any of these people understand American politics.

The left do everything reverse of what they will tell you. The internet was fine before net whatever it's called.
But as for why the hell 3rd worlders care so much, I guess they were getting free internet or something. Well to bad your ass don't live here so you don't get a vote, now piss off.
I live here and I can vote. I will vote against anything and everything the left have put into place until it is all wiped away for the rest of my life.
If you don't like that, too bad, deal with it. look at the fine mess you've done to your own places, letting ISIS come in and murder and rape everyone you know.
GOOD JOB!, Well not in my backyard, buddy. Get a damn job and fix your shit holes and quit bitching, the internet was made here and it will stay here. Get off your ass and make something. How about those lights? American, Cars? American. Make your own internet and STFU. Commie pukes.

[zecleria]

I don't think any of these people understand American politics.

oh trust me, i do understand american politics quite well.

The left do everything reverse of what they will tell you. The internet was fine before net whatever it's called.

1-before net neutrality laws fcc had the power to sue telecom companies if a customer reports that they were unfair in data treatment. obamas administration just enforced that rule. now youre removing that rule completely. fcc will no longer have the power to do that if this net neutrality repeal passes cus a commission cant use the rights they gave up by law.
2-american internet was not fine either cus it was way underperforming compared to rest of the western world. its heavily monopolized and trust banning did absolutely nothing from stopping isp's eliminating competition between each other as usual with every other anti monopoly law in usa.

But as for why the hell 3rd worlders care so much, I guess they were getting free internet or something. Well to bad your ass don't live here so you don't get a vote, now piss off.

us "3rd worlders" have access to free healthcare and free education without the retarded bipartisan mentality you very clearly have. and its not like americans vote there either. your "1st world country" has one of the worlds highest amount of voters who do not vote.

I live here and I can vote. I will vote against anything and everything the left have put into place until it is all wiped away for the rest of my life.

guess you want slavery back too then? cus u know it was made forbidden by a leftist dude. wouldnt suprise me if you want it back tho.
trump supporters such as yourself do have that issue called "being a bloody idiot"

If you don't like that, too bad, deal with it. look at the fine mess you've done to your own places, letting ISIS come in and murder and rape everyone you know.

you just had to go there dont you? if you actually watched a news channel that isnt fox news you'd know that those refugees, oh sorry i mean ISIS, didnt made streets of europe unsafe. vast majority of those "rapefugees" are bullshit news that was confirmed false several times by several other sources. and if you want to consider safety, america has far higher homicide rates and europe average per capita so yeah. our countries are far safer to walk at night.

GOOD JOB!, Well not in my backyard, buddy. Get a damn job and fix your shit holes and quit bitching, the internet was made here and it will stay here. Get off your ass and make something. How about those lights? American, Cars? American. Make your own internet and STFU. Commie pukes.

electricy was invented by a british dude. and car was invented by a french one. and i use an italian car as well. we do make our own shit dontchu worry. oh and every single company that produces technology is all liberal companies in usa. i guess you want those removed as well so what do you produce then by your logic? oh yes i know. absolutely nothing. sad right?

damn son. you are one big special kid arent you?

[RainbowSplat]

Alright people settle down

[Derajalen]

Alright people settle down

I will if you delete his post too. censoring me. I told him the truth and you can't handle it. delete his too.

You do know that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, right?
but I get it, you're just a leftist idealogue and parrot the garbage they tell you to.

Electricy was discovered by Benjamin Franklin "was born on Milk Street, in Boston, Massachusetts. American" and perfected by Nikola Tesla "was born in Lika but was American in America at the time"

Cars were invented by Karl Benz the German doesn't count as "The Cars" as we know them today, that was Henry Ford who was born in " Greenfield Township, Michigan"

See, you don't know shit about history or the world around you, which proves my point.

And slavery? Ha, hell no, we don't need or want those. ship them back. Is my personal opinion.
"Refugees" as you call them go give them a big ol' hug "Being you are a apologist" and see what happens.

there I edited it, because I can take the high ground.
"Don't tread on me!"

[SirKeksalot]

Electricy was discovered by Benjamin Franklin "was born on Milk Street, in Boston, Massachusetts. American" and perfected by Nikola Tesla "was born in Lika but was American in America at the time"

Actually, Benny Frank only studied it and concluded that lightning was electricity. Electricity in general was "discovered" by William Gilbert in 1600. He was English. Electric phenomena had long been known to other cultures, though--the ancient Egyptians made note of electric fish, and Thales of Miletus studied static electricity around 600 BCE, though he didn't realize what it was and mistook it for a magnetic charge.

So, yeah, the fact that you can't even be bothered to do your research pretty much eliminates any credibility you have. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "Troll in the dungeon! Thought you ought to know." *collapses*

[zecleria]

I will if you delete his post too. censoring me. I told him the truth and you can't handle it. delete his too.

You do know that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, right?
but I get it, you're just a leftist idealogue and parrot the garbage they tell you to.

except the fact that every moron knows that both parties did had exchanged their voters throught history since then. but guess since you dont have free education you couldnt afford to learn that.

Electricy was discovered by Benjamin Franklin "was born on Milk Street, in Boston, Massachusetts. American" and perfected by Nikola Tesla "was born in Lika but was American in America at the time"

well kek answered that one for me.

Cars were invented by Karl Benz the German doesn't count as "The Cars" as we know them today, that was Henry Ford who was born in " Greenfield Township, Michigan"

henry ford didnt "invent" cars at all. he invented mass production formula. also was known for supporting hitlers campaign mind you so hes not exactly someone you should be proud of.

See, you don't know shit about history or the world around you, which proves my point.

i know history since i dont have to pay a small fortune to take proper education, which is also proven several times by your own ignorance.

And slavery? Ha, hell no, we don't need or want those. ship them back. Is my personal opinion.

ah so youre a racist then? good. thank you for further showing your colors. that we all already knew of. oh and you factually DO need them if you dont want a big hit on your workforce.

"Refugees" as you call them go give them a big ol' hug "Being you are a apologist" and see what happens.

how about using the thing called "numbers"? cus yknow actual numbers dont give a shit about your "apologist" comeback.

there I edited it, because I can take the high ground.

what high ground a racist subhuman like yourself can take tho i wonder.

"Don't tread on me!"

ooooh im so scared of that big red writing!

the world is laughing at you mate.

Actually, Benny Frank only studied it and concluded that lightning was electricity. Electricity in general was "discovered" by William Gilbert in 1600. He was English. Electric phenomena had long been known to other cultures, though--the ancient Egyptians made note of electric fish, and Thales of Miletus studied static electricity around 600 BCE, though he didn't realize what it was and mistook it for a magnetic charge.

So, yeah, the fact that you can't even be bothered to do your research pretty much eliminates any credibility you have. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: "Troll in the dungeon! Thought you ought to know." *collapses*

i was talking about micheal faraday actually, a brit dude who did built the first machine that worked on electricity iirc.

[SirKeksalot]

i was talking about micheal faraday actually, a brit dude who did built the first machine that worked on electricity iirc.

Yeah, but he was talking about who technically "discovered" electricity. Faraday came after Gilbert.