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Thread: The State of Apollo

  1. #51
    Forum Moderator Infamous SeventhArchon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGodlyFist View Post
    Technically there is no such things as hunter items, as every physical god can buy they. Strangely enough hunters are the only class that is restricted from items in their type of damage category. So we can't really nerf a lot of items except maybe physical stacking items to nerf hunters as we would indirectly nerf some assassins.
    Hunter items = items that are viable to build only on Hunters or with very few exceptions. Including Rage, Deathbringer, but mostly Devourer's Gauntlet.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

    ~I only play Jungle Practice, so note that my opinions are colored by that fact~
    "I am a primordial being: eternal, infinite, and still not nerfed enough."
    Quote Originally Posted by TigrisCallidus
    QUOTES ARE NO ARGUMENTS!

  2. #52
    Banned Honoured LiamX's Avatar
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    Ok. So the last time I played Apollo, I was relatively new to Smite.
    I played him again just recently and yeah. He lacks something. I don't know. The damage maybe?

    His passive, you can't control it. How many hits before you can activate it.. 10 right? Too much. And when your passive is activated, it's 5 hit or miss then it's gone. This is extremely underpowered. Probably the weakest hunter passive (or overall passive) in the game. Anyone who thinks otherwise are of course welcome to present a hunter who has a weaker passive than him.

    AND PLEASE Avoid posting like "Apollo is fine" or "he has good steroid, CC, etc" and that's it. Provide evidences and give numbers. Make a comparison against other hunters.

  3. #53
    Super Moderator Godlike RainbowSplat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    AND PLEASE Avoid posting like "Apollo is fine" or "he has good steroid, CC, etc" and that's it. Provide evidences and give numbers. Make a comparison against other hunters.
    Funny cuz you didnt provide anything either in your post
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  4. #54
    Banned Honoured LiamX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    Funny cuz you didnt provide anything either in your post
    If you're blind and bias then you are most likely to ignore anything a poster who has a different opinion than you say.



    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    His passive, you can't control it. How many hits before you can activate it.. 10 right? Too much. And when your passive is activated, it's 5 hit or miss then it's gone. This is extremely underpowered. Probably the weakest hunter passive (or overall passive) in the game. Anyone who thinks otherwise are of course welcome to present a hunter who has a weaker passive than him.
    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    Thank you Uwilltap.

    Guys, instead of generalizing: "he does well yada yada", why don't we compare him to other hunters.
    I'm sorry, I just don't see this "he's leagues above the rest" argument.

    Let's compare him to other hunters.
    Cernunnos, Hachiman, Skadi, Izanami, Hou Yi and Rama are the current top picks for hunters now. Definitely Apollo is nowhere near any of their leagues.
    Anhur, Cupid, Jingwei and Medusa can do wreck havoc and Apollo is definitely not anywhere near them either.
    Now I know I said Artemis is my favorite food but she can do real damage if there's a noob on your team that feeds her and that happens quite a lot especially with Smite's matchmaking system. Her threat level compared to Apollo is much much more.

    There are only 4 other hunters that's near his league.
    Ullr - his difficulty level makes him unpopular but his damage is definitely better than Apollo. I don't get scared of random Ullrs unless I see that he's mastery level 10. That means my opponent knows what he's doing. Definitely pose a much bigger threat than Apollo.
    Xbalanque - I haven't compared their damage but his ulti is extremely useful. I'd rather fight Apollo over him if my objective is to win.
    Neith - the easiest hunter to play but there are several games where Neith does well. Much more than Apollo in fact. Her ulti guarantees she'll have at least 1 kill.
    Chiron - ok. Chiron is the only guy who has the same threat level as Apollo. However, I've seen more Chirons do well than Apollos.
    but yeah, here are what I posted. Make a counter-argument to that.

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    Super Moderator Godlike RainbowSplat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    If you're blind and bias then you are most likely to ignore anything a poster who has a different opinion than you say.







    but yeah, here are what I posted. Make a counter-argument to that.
    I dont see any numbers in there
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

  6. #56
    Banned Honoured LiamX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    I dont see any numbers in there
    but you see me comparing him to other hunters.
    Hey, are we gonna discuss Apollo or discuss how I am posting? You're a mod but you're the one who's derailing a thread. Kind of not mod-like you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    but you see me comparing him to other hunters.
    Hey, are we gonna discuss Apollo or discuss how I am posting? You're a mod but you're the one who's derailing a thread. Kind of not mod-like you know.
    Its still a discussion about Apollo you ask for people to provide numbers but you dont do it yourself so no im not derailing it
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

  8. #58
    Ocean Princess Prestigious Lyralis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamX View Post
    but you see me comparing him to other hunters.
    Hey, are we gonna discuss Apollo or discuss how I am posting? You're a mod but you're the one who's derailing a thread. Kind of not mod-like you know.
    That in itself is offtopic. Quite hypocritical of you.

    ---

    And now I will post the level 20 numbers of a few hunters of their stats.

    I'll compare Attack Speed and Basic Attack Power cuz they're the most important ones for dps.

    Apollo: 92, 1.27
    Anhur: 90, 1.21
    Cernunnos: 87, 1.28
    Chiron: 82, 1.22
    Hachiman: 86, 1.26
    Hou Yi: 96, 1.18
    Ullr: 86, 1.23

    ---

    Okay so as you can see here Apollo's basic stats tend to be above average for his class. His attackspeed is on the high end and so is his base basic attack power.

    Now, let's compare some abilities.

    First, waveclear/line ability poke.

    Apollo: 290+80%
    Ullr: 290+80%
    Anhur: 350+80%
    Cernunnos: 200+75% base and minor tick damage.
    Hachiman: 305+45%
    Hou Yi: 255+65% base, can ricochet.
    Chiron: 270+80%

    Okay so first off, comparing Apollos and Ullrs, they're identical, both only do damage and nothing else.

    Anhurs does more and has knockback/stun because he's early-mid game and ability based.

    Cerns is a root with lower initial damage.

    Hachiman has higher base, very low scaling, but has a steroid.

    Hou Yi needs bounces to be superior.

    Chiron does less but can be used to cleanse allies and also marks.

    So Apollo's 1 is slightly underpowered imo but not overtly so.

    It definitely is on-par clear with other hunters.

    -----

    Comparing the various CCs of hunters now,

    Apollo: 2.3s Mez, +30 Phys prot. - This is a great boxing tool with the prots, and the Mez guarantees a free auto attack (not to mention free minion damage as that doesn't break mez)

    Ullr: 1.4s Stun, but he doesn't have an ult.

    Cern: 1s Root, but he has 4 steroid options.

    Anhur: 1.5s Stun, but conditional upon hitting a wall.

    And so on.

    Apollo's CC is strong and balanced, it doesn't deal damage but unlike all the other ones listed it is AoE. In addition it is by far the best one if you're trying to run away, including the protections.

    It also is a fair boxing tool if you're in melee range, giving free prots and a guaranteed auto+So Beautiful.

    ----

    Their Escapes

    Apollo: 250+60%, 25% movespeed for 2s. Dash. Stacks passive. Can slow enemies hit by the end by 25% for 2s. Also knocks back enemies in the path of his dash.

    Ullr: 170+50%. Leap.

    Anhur: 230+60%. Leap. Knocks up.

    Cernunnos: 290+80%. Dash.

    Hachiman: 160-320 + 40-80%, Dash, Stuns if hits twice.

    IMO I think Apollo's is fine, it gives bonus movespeed, helps his passive potentially, and knocks back all enemies hit.

    Ullr's is a pure escape. Anhurs is a good boxing tool. Cern is a pure escape but decent damage. Hachiman is an escape or engage with a conditional stun. Apollos is an escape or engage with movespeed buffs/debuffs, slight knockback, and buffs his passive.

    ---

    It's too difficult to compare the utility of various ultimates so...

    Apollos functions as a second escape if you ward adequately so you have time to ult. It gives vision over everyone you pass over, a huge movespeed increase, immunity to everything except Zeus Detonate/Nu Wa Ult/Damage over Time.

    In addition, it actually deals a LOT of damage on landing: 680+120%.

    There is also no limit on how long you can fly realistically, apart from the mana and the hard cap of 45 seconds which is enough time to cross the entire Conquest map and back twice.

    -----

    Finally, his passive.

    Unlike other hunters, Apollo's steroid is on his passive.

    This means that he has 4 fully functioning abilities, rather than 3 abilities and a steroid, but comes at the cost of being somewhat unreliable.

    Still, a direct 100% attackspeed increase is a huge steroid even if it's only for 5 attacks.

    I think it's a pretty good passive, it means that you can cap out at ~1.6 attackspeed allowing you to build more power/pen/whatever and when your steroid is up your dps is above practically every other hunter except Artemis and AMC.

    ----

    So in conclusion could Apollo use a buff?

    Sure, a small one. Maybe increase his 1's base from 290 to 320, or give it a 15% slow or something.

    Thing is his base stats are very high for the Hunter average and all of his abilities compare rather favorably to other hunters apart from his 1, to an extent.

    I think the reason he's not played much is that he's very lategame with his ult's splitpush potential and whatnot, which just means that the current meta isn't kind to him.

    It's similar with Scylla. She's really really good, but this meta kinda shits on her so she's barely seen.

    So I'd say wait for season 5 and hope for a more lategame focused meta, and see where Apollo lands. He may need a small buff but that's all.

    ----

    I posted numbers to back my argument. Happy?
    Last edited by Lyralis; 11-14-2017 at 07:14 PM.


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  9. #59
    Banned Honoured LiamX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    Its still a discussion about Apollo you ask for people to provide numbers but you dont do it yourself so no im not derailing it
    A good mod would have provided numbers and discussed about what the thread was originally meant for: Apollo, not avoiding the topic and discuss a poster instead.

    Anyway, can you make a comparison between Apollo and other hunters who you think are weaker than him?

  10. #60
    Senior Member Honoured RamenFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSplat View Post
    I dont see any numbers in there
    Numbers tend to be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when comparing hunters based on their Kits and what they bring to the team. All hunters have really good damage scaling, even Neith and Chiron can hurt if they get to that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyralis
    That in itself is offtopic. Quite hypocritical of you.
    And the Black Kettle award goes to...

    OT: My math is not exactly my strongest point, so I look more at peripherals than hard numbers, I'm sure someone here mathematically inclined can toss us some stuff depending on builds.

    For me personally, Apollo has some good CC, a rotational Ult and a semi-decent passive. When you add in people like Hou Yi or Cern who have an ult the size of China that can contest objectives, Apollo just seems to fall in the wayside. Add in Jing Wei who can more or less do what he can but better, and for free, it's generally not surprising he fell off a bit but I don't consider him bottom barrel tier.

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