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Thread: Suggestion of buffs for Zhong Kui

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    Junior Member Cupidhead NPhantasm's Avatar
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    Suggestion of buffs for Zhong Kui

    Zhong Kui received some major buffs in 4.4, but that was not enough because he still has outdated limitations. So I thought of a few buffs that did not involve increasing the damage, but taking into account his bruiser characteristics.

    Demon Bag

    When the ultimate is active the protections are duplicated, this is excellent, but I see it as a big problem to lose all the stacks when this ends, you end up being a more vulnerable target than started, this is not fine for a character which is a mid range and is not too encouraged to stay safe in a team fight. So I thought of two different buffs possibilities:

    A) Zhong Kui retains 25% of the stacks present in his bag at the end of Recall Demons, at level 10 of the character this amount becomes 50%. All stacks are lost on death.

    Near the late game keeping the stacks is a difficult task, you cannot expect to have 2 waves to fill your bag satisfactorily after every ultimate while defending a objective or attacking one . So keep the punishment for dying, but keep up at to half of the protections after the end of the ultimate.

    B) All stacks are lost on death or after activation of Recall Demons, but If a god dies during this ability, 5 stacks return to the bag per god death after the end of the ultimate .

    I think it's fair to reward the Zhong Kui with protections for killing a god during the ultimate, just as other gods are rewarded with movement or even more damage by execution.

    Expose Evil

    Slow is no longer removed after card removal by Exorcism or Book of Demons

    I think more than enough sacrifice 25% of the remaining damage of the card for healing or double stun to happen, other gods have more stronger slows and do not have to lose it for something else to happen.

  2. #2
    Junior Member Cupidhead dragonblade2045's Avatar
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    While I agree with you that Zhong still needs some love, consider adjusting your items and your play to account for his skills. His card is best used when you let all 5 ticks go. If you're pulling it early, it's because you're using hit and run tactics to heal or there are no gods around for you to worry about pulling cards off creeps (think jungle clear). Make use of Gem of Isolation, combined with the slow from the card, people damn near stop, it's kinda disgusting.

    As for his Ult, the only time I've found it worthwhile to use it to begin with is when I'm about to die anyhow. The bonus prots might keep my alive, and if they don't oh well I was gonna lose the stacks anyway. If I do survive, most likely everyone's gone and I can back, then start restacking. Even with the nerf to Hide of the Urchin, it's still a great item to have on Zhong, provided you can actually do some work to get the stacks up, otherwise, gotta spend the cash and get Mantle of Discord.

    The biggest problem Zhong players run into is that other players don't understand/don't give a fuck how his passive works. Assassins coming in and clearing my wave when I'm lining up to pull all 6 cards because I just forced the other mid to back. ADCs bombing jungle camps that I just carded because they can't wait the 1 second for me to pull the card. In non conquest modes, something as simple as clearing the entire wave after my card is out. When players learn how Zhong plays and how not to screw him, you will see a boost in Zhong win rates. Seeing as that's not gonna happen, nothing short of a rework is going to help him in his current state. Buff him in any manner, and he's going to get the OP cries and end up getting nerfed to pre 4.4 status.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead NPhantasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonblade2045 View Post
    While I agree with you that Zhong still needs some love, consider adjusting your items and your play to account for his skills. His card is best used when you let all 5 ticks go. If you're pulling it early, it's because you're using hit and run tactics to heal or there are no gods around for you to worry about pulling cards off creeps (think jungle clear). Make use of Gem of Isolation, combined with the slow from the card, people damn near stop, it's kinda disgusting.
    In a first lane phase I could agree with you about letting all 5 ticks occur, but in a TF this inside directly in your DPS, you restrain yourself to use your 2 only to not lose the slow. Aside from the fact that Zhong is the only god that has CC restriction, Raijin has 6 seconds of 30% slow in area and no one has cared yet, my point is that this restriction is unfair compared to other gods only for 20% slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonblade2045 View Post
    As for his Ult, the only time I've found it worthwhile to use it to begin with is when I'm about to die anyhow. The bonus prots might keep my alive, and if they don't oh well I was gonna lose the stacks anyway. If I do survive, most likely everyone's gone and I can back, then start restacking. Even with the nerf to Hide of the Urchin, it's still a great item to have on Zhong, provided you can actually do some work to get the stacks up, otherwise, gotta spend the cash and get Mantle of Discord.
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonblade2045 View Post
    The biggest problem Zhong players run into is that other players don't understand/don't give a fuck how his passive works. Assassins coming in and clearing my wave when I'm lining up to pull all 6 cards because I just forced the other mid to back. ADCs bombing jungle camps that I just carded because they can't wait the 1 second for me to pull the card. In non conquest modes, something as simple as clearing the entire wave after my card is out. When players learn how Zhong plays and how not to screw him, you will see a boost in Zhong win rates. Seeing as that's not gonna happen, nothing short of a rework is going to help him in his current state. Buff him in any manner, and he's going to get the OP cries and end up getting nerfed to pre 4.4 status.
    My Zhong Kui always has defense no matter what I am doing, in my opinion he is a god who needs to expose himself to do something, so a minimum of one defensive item is necessary. But about ultimate, that's what I'm suggesting, losing all stacks or having no benefit refresh for it is outdated to the current pace of the game, all other gods rely on some sort of refresh mechanics (He Bo, Fenrir or Janus) or permanent stock (Thoth, Chronos and etc). At the suggestion of 50% stack retention in mid / late, Zhong would only need one wave to complete stacks, after all there are only 20 protections that do not make him broken at this point in the game.

    I would not like a rework because they would turn the Zhong Kui into just another common god of damage as all other mages, just as they managed to ruin Hades.
    Last edited by NPhantasm; 11-01-2017 at 07:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Chosen KAKLAW's Avatar
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    Uhh Hades can still have mass self healing.

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    Junior Member Cupidhead dragonblade2045's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NPhantasm View Post
    In a first lane phase I could agree with you about letting all 5 ticks occur, but in a TF this inside directly in your DPS, you restrain yourself to use your 2 only to not lose the slow. Aside from the fact that Zhong is the only god that has CC restriction, Raijin has 6 seconds of 30% slow in area and no one has cared yet, my point is that this restriction is unfair compared to other gods only for 20% slow.
    So I'm not advocating letting all 5 ticks go in a TF to keep the slow applied, rather that if you want to keep the slow you should build Iso gem since each tick refreshes the gem's slow. That way you keep your burst potential and still get the slow for your teammates.




    Quote Originally Posted by NPhantasm View Post
    My Zhong Kui always has defense no matter what I am doing, in my opinion he is a god who needs to expose himself to do something, so a minimum of one defensive item is necessary. But about ultimate, that's what I'm suggesting, losing all stacks or having no benefit refresh for it is outdated to the current pace of the game, all other gods rely on some sort of refresh mechanics (He Bo, Fenrir or Janus) or permanent stock (Thoth, Chronos and etc). At the suggestion of 50% stack retention in mid / late, Zhong would only need one wave to complete stacks, after all there are only 20 protections that do not make him broken at this point in the game.
    agreed here as well. Zhong needs to commit to a fight in order to gain anything, and because of that if you're not building at least 1 defensive item on him, you're just crippling yourself, asking to get ganked, and hurting your team end game. The 20 prots don't make that much of a difference end game, but it does help through most of the midgame. Some return on his Ult would be very nice, but like I said earlier, I can't see them buffing Zhong in any way without everyone crying nerf instantly.

    Agreed, a rework on Zhong is the wrong answer. He's actually quite effective as he is. He's unfortunately very limited by his team crippling his early game more than anything.

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    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    B) All stacks are lost on death or after activation of Recall Demons, but If a god dies during this ability, 5 stacks return to the bag per god death after the end of the ultimate .

    I think it's fair to reward the Zhong Kui with protections for killing a god during the ultimate, just as other gods are rewarded with movement or even more damage by execution.
    I like this suggestion I mean why not.

    Gem is so good on zhong though I don't have a problem with 2 and 3 consuming the 1 slow.
    Rocking the boat

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    Member Worshipper Schimeon's Avatar
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    he needs a visual update, legendaries updated, and a new skin you mean
    okay lets go hirez

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    Junior Member Cupidhead NPhantasm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonblade2045 View Post
    So I'm not advocating letting all 5 ticks go in a TF to keep the slow applied, rather that if you want to keep the slow you should build Iso gem since each tick refreshes the gem's slow. That way you keep your burst potential and still get the slow for your teammates.
    Yes, I use Gem of Isolation in various situations for Zhong, but anyway slow will decrease from 45% to 25%, for gods with high mobility like Bakasura, Muzemcab and others this is a big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonblade2045 View Post
    Some return on his Ult would be very nice, but like I said earlier, I can't see them buffing Zhong in any way without everyone crying nerf instantly.
    We can only pray for the attention of the HR in the transition of S4 -> 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KAKLAW View Post
    Uhh Hades can still have mass self healing.
    I clearly remember when they announced enthusiastically in patch S2 -> 3 that Hades switched to the mage class, but the first thing they did was nerf him:

    Devour Souls: Reduced based Healing from 30/40/50/60/70 → 25/35/45/55/65.
    I would rather they had left Hades as a guardian like Bacchus and Fafnir
    Last edited by NPhantasm; 11-03-2017 at 07:15 PM.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead ketsie's Avatar
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    Zong should have a real passive. his demon bag is just an extension to his other abilities, like the old Chronos passive. If they gave Zong some kind of small lore friendly passive and just lumped his bag into his abilities the way it should be he might do slightly better. A passive should add to the kit not just describe what his abilities already do.

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    New Member Cupidhead ewqdsa's Avatar
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    When Zhong use ult he lose all stacks for nothing, so my idea is
    of each stack Zhong gains 2 extra protections(only for ult time) or
    of each stack Zhong gains 0,5% dmg mitigation(only for ult time) or
    he get heal 1% of all life of each stack when his ult end.

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