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Thread: Critical hits & random chance

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead EmperorGricer's Avatar
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    Critical hits & random chance

    There is something that has been bothering me for a while, and it's not about something being broken or overpowered. Rather it's about something I feel is out of place in a game like Smite.

    Smite is a very competitive game, where skill is the top factor that lets one come out the victor, and this does hold true, however there is one medhanic that does not compliment this concept: Random chance.

    Let's take a look at critical hits for example. An 20% crit chance gives yout basic attacks a 20% chance to deal 200% damage, effectively increasing your basic attack damage by 20% as long as you have the crit item. However, this effective increase is hardly consistent. A fight between two hunters with the same build and crit chance can be decided solely by one getting 3 lucky crits in a row while the other didn't get a single crit at all. Now, statistically, that's not very likely to happen, but given how many games are played every second, there's plenty of instances of things such as that happening. The same can be said for other items that rely upon xhanxe, such as Midgardian Mail. A hunter could hit you with six shots before getting slowed, or they could get slowed after the very first. While unlikely to single handedly decide the outcome of a fight, the exact moment when the item's passive procs can be a very big deal.

    Random chance just doesn't mesh well with the concept of a battle of skill. Consitency, however, which the vast majority of abilities and item in the game follow, does. And I know other MOBAs also feature random chance, but that does not mean the concept of this post does not apply to them either. So, I make the following suggestions:

    - Remove Critical Strike Chance, replace with Critical Strikes:
    Crits are probably the most impactful thing in the game that relies upon chance. The sheer amount of burst damage gotten from a random crit is insane, especially when you have Deathbringer. So I suggest removing Crit Strike Chance and instead implementing a new mechanic, which, for the sake of ease, I'll call Critical Strikes.

    Critical Strikes: The damage of you basic attacks increases by a percentage equal to you percentage of Critical Strikes. (This does not affect structures)

    For example, take Rage. Currently, (and not counting the power it gives) Rage provides an inconsistent 20% damage boost to basic attacks, or 35% when fully stacked. Replace the Critical Strike Chance with Critical Strikes, and these damage boosts will instead be consistent. Every single basic attack will deal 20-35% more damage, but none of them will deal the 200% damage burst. Abilities that are affected by Critical Strike Chance would also be affected by Critical Strikes. No more getting 100-0'd by a single use of Serqet's Deathbane just because her 40% chance procced thrice, nor are you getting a dud Deathbane that had the 40% chance happen not even a single time.

    - Change Item Mechanics:
    In addition, items that currently rely upon chance, or on landing a crit, would be changed. An easy way to implement this would be to change these items to apply their effects through stacks. For example, hitting a basic attack against a god with Midgardian Mail applies a lesser slow to movement and attack speed, but the slow stacks up to the 30% slow we're used to. Or alternatively, the effect could stack, but do nothing prior to being fully stacked.

    For items such as Malice and Wind Demon, that rely upon landing a crit for their effects to apply, the amount of stacks gained could be equal to your Critical Strikes. So if you had Malice, you would inflict 20 stacks per hit, taking 5 hits to apply the bleed effect. But with Malice + Evolved Rage would inflict 55 stacks per hit, taking only 2 hits to proc the bleed effect. Deathbringer, on the other hand, could be made to increase your Critical Strikes percantage gained from all sources by 40%. Overall, the average damage should stay the same.

    And that's about it I think. Of course I don't expect these changes to ever be implemented, and if they were I'm sure it would take a while, but I'm mostly just throwing this out there to see what others think.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    I think crit is fine, maybe some adjustments are needed, power maybe. Midgardian though should totally be 100% proc chance. So what you have some off chance to deal extra dmg early game. If you go crits on a hunter you wan't atleast 60% to make it consistent enough then it ain't random anymore. The whole tradeoff with crits is that until you reach that 60% its unreliable to happen and you can't expect to get passives or anything going making it come online much later then other item choices. As a side note you can wind/posison+another crit for 40% (and mix with qins) (or well just db+malice) and still get value but you rely a bit on chance still sitting at 40%, it is risky unless you are tossing 10+ autos on people to get statistics in your favor but crit builds don't really work best like that, they hit a few times and they hit hard. Your suggestion just make it consistent with the same dmg increase per item means crit would come online sooner and be even stronger then it already is.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 11-22-2017 at 03:14 PM.
    Rocking the boat

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    Senior Member Honoured NervousCrysis's Avatar
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    That's the charm of crits. Erase crit items and prepare to see a Freya, Sol and Chronos in every game...
    We are not here to entertain you. We are not here to get entertained. We fight, but we are not here to win... Or lose. We are here... To feed.

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    Junior Member Senior Cupidhead RhodosGuard's Avatar
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    Fear no more, humble citizen, HiRez comes to your aid.
    Crits? Random?
    No more!
    buy 3 crit items for the unholy 80% crit chance with 230% damage! (or the obviously way lamer option of 65% with 230% damage + 75% of your physical power over time)
    Randomness waves you goodbye as, on average, every attack a hunter unleashes on you deals 2.04 times their AA damage!

    Spectral Armor Salesmen see 10000% increase in income!

    Edit.
    Ok. Are these Forums dead? Is anyone active here? Cause on Steam forums everyone is like "Noone listens here, go to Hi Rez Forums hihi" but I get here and the second site already contains dead threads?
    Guess I'm a Necro now.

  5. #5
    Member Follower Yuls's Avatar
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    No. You can't remove crit without removing other RNG things first about gods. Just to name a few: Rama 2, Artemis passive, Jing Wei 2, Hou Yi passive, Sylvanus passive, Hachiman 1, Serqet 1, Merc 1, and so on. The list goes on and on.

    Crit should stay and be good, not just a joke build you do when you don't feel like building pen like in S4. Or we can just have mage ADC take over and let the hunter class die.

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    Member Follower kingasce13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuls View Post
    No. You can't remove crit without removing other RNG things first about gods. Just to name a few: Rama 2, Artemis passive, Jing Wei 2, Hou Yi passive, Sylvanus passive, Hachiman 1, Serqet 1, Merc 1, and so on. The list goes on and on.

    Crit should stay and be good, not just a joke build you do when you don't feel like building pen like in S4. Or we can just have mage ADC take over and let the hunter class die.
    How is Hou Yi;'s passive random or are you just adding it since it's about the RNG being removed if so is Geb's passive included since it is a lot like Hou Yi's passive with the anti crit.

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    Member Worshipper VlentisFlyheightis's Avatar
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    I think crit chance should cap at 50% on basics and only break that cap with god abilities like Ne Zha or Artemis, with a trade off of making crit items more cost efficient
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    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NervousCrysis View Post
    That's the charm of crits. Erase crit items and prepare to see a Freya, Sol and Chronos in every game...
    so...every game in Smite any way?
    Yeah...Right...Sure...And I'm The King of England!
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  9. #9
    Member Follower kingasce13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameVeteranAzure View Post
    so...every game in Smite any way?
    To be fair I only see Freya every game the other ones are some of the mages I see the least.

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    Member Follower MArBuSe's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=EmperorGricer;893321]There is something that has been bothering me for a while, and it's not about something being broken or overpowered. Rather it's about something I feel is out of place in a game like Smite.

    Smite is a very competitive game, where skill is the top factor that lets one come out the victor, and this does hold true, however there is one medhanic that does not compliment this concept: Random chance.
    crit chance is as well as all RNGs mostly involves choice factor , so u already are wrong



    Let's take a look at critical hits for example. An 20% crit chance gives yout basic attacks a 20% chance to deal 200% damage, effectively increasing your basic attack damage by 20% as long as you have the crit item. However, this effective increase is hardly consistent. A fight between two hunters with the same build and crit chance can be decided solely by one getting 3 lucky crits in a row while the other didn't get a single crit at all. Now, statistically, that's not very likely to happen, but given how many games are played every second, there's plenty of instances of things such as that happening. The same can be said for other items that rely upon xhanxe, such as Midgardian Mail. A hunter could hit you with six shots before getting slowed, or they could get slowed after the very first. While unlikely to single handedly decide the outcome of a fight, the exact moment when the item's passive procs can be a very big deal.
    RNGs aren't as bad as u think ... like sylvanus's passive ... in fact i don't really like crit chance mechanism , but also , characters like hunters have to have this type of power spikes ... ofc this mechanic still can be replaced

    Random chance just doesn't mesh well with the concept of a battle of skill. Consitency, however, which the vast majority of abilities and item in the game follow, does. And I know other MOBAs also feature random chance, but that does not mean the concept of this post does not apply to them either. So, I make the following suggestions:
    depends on your interpretation of word skill ,ability to make right choice , and get advantage over opponent by making right decisions ( builds ,moves) is skill as well...


    - Remove Critical Strike Chance, replace with Critical Strikes:
    Crits are probably the most impactful thing in the game that relies upon chance. The sheer amount of burst damage gotten from a random crit is insane, especially when you have Deathbringer. So I suggest removing Crit Strike Chance and instead implementing a new mechanic, which, for the sake of ease, I'll call Critical Strikes.
    lol i like u man ... i like your idea ... but i think it will be either too strong either too weak for certain characters...but i think u are pretty close to what game needs ...

    Critical Strikes: The damage of you basic attacks increases by a percentage equal to you percentage of Critical Strikes. (This does not affect structures)

    For example, take Rage. Currently, (and not counting the power it gives) Rage provides an inconsistent 20% damage boost to basic attacks, or 35% when fully stacked. Replace the Critical Strike Chance with Critical Strikes, and these damage boosts will instead be consistent. Every single basic attack will deal 20-35% more damage, but none of them will deal the 200% damage burst. Abilities that are affected by Critical Strike Chance would also be affected by Critical Strikes. No more getting 100-0'd by a single use of Serqet's Deathbane just because her 40% chance procced thrice, nor are you getting a dud Deathbane that had the 40% chance happen not even a single time.

    - Change Item Mechanics:
    ok i kinda like your idea ... i think game needs more items for different characters and various builds ... so your idea compliments one of my ideas ... i call it basic attack modifiers ( modification ) , new mechanics for game , and bit unique for smite ...it's basically same except not as easy to reach the effect ... some items will require stacking on single target to utilize effect , others enhance dmge by stacking upon killing and so on... i think u don't understand how overpowered hunters and basic attack based characters became if they will consistent critical strikes , right now if u have 100 crit chance , most likely u will have 200 power or even less ... with base dmge it will reach 270 ( in average)... so your basic attacks will deal 500-580 dmge per basic attack ( including DB passive, and min mitigation, with 60 protections dmge it will barely reach 500) but to make this build effective u will need pen and power ... in your case building 1 or 2 crit items will give dmge increase up to 50% per basic attack , and u will be able to stack stupid amount of power and attack speed with other 4 items ...
    in other hand modifiers require stacking ( different kind of) and they also can scale from power u build .. which will affect every stage of the game, since early they will be less effective ... and ofc players will need to farm a lot and pay attention on macro

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