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Thread: More CC counter items.

  1. #21
    Senior Member Honoured Zellun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relanah View Post
    Yeah, there's beads. Otherwise, nah.

    Or are you saying that pro's are bad at the game since they need to rely on Beads?



    Again, this is me talking about how the PROS play the game. They towerhug to avoid CC chains from ganks when their beads are down.

    Your escape is down/reaction time is awful/somewhere by yourself... FOR FUCKING HUN BATZ ULT? The instant cast big AoE CC?




    Ahh yes, my skill level. When I reference the best players of the game and their playing habits.

    Great argument there. I see how you got such a high reputation /s



    Yeah, I know my advantages. I know when to use it, when I have beads up so don't instantly get CC'd and killed while trying to set up a CC chain to kill someone.
    Your a idiot if you think the pros are the best players in the game. There are plenty of players who have the same potential as them. Your ignorance is at a all time high if you actually think a hun batz ultimate is unavoidable. His ultimate can be avoided by a simple leap or a dash. His ultimate is not instant. He has to leap to you and use it if you are that dumb he will just walk towards you and use it. Ontop of the fact you keep repeating yourself with these same dumb unrealistic situations that only tells us that you lack skill. Why would a hun batz leap on you And use his ultimate? What period of the game are we talking? Who is around you? What god are you playing? What are you building? What game mode is this? What is his level? Where are you located? You can't give examples of your ignorant claims of gettingbhit by OP CC without telling anybody any of these things. Please think before you post something so dumb..

  2. #22
    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    Wow that escalated quickly.

    To shut the "Skill to counter CC and wrong positioning argument" down here a little example.

    I throw a splitter grenade at you and each splitter is a CC.......how many do you evade ? Those splitters also cover a huge area like most CC abilitys so position yourself the best you can.


    As you can see using CC requires as much skill as throwing said grenade. So there is no reason why countering CC should be harder then using it.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Honoured Zellun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    Wow that escalated quickly.

    To shut the "Skill to counter CC and wrong positioning argument" down here a little example.

    I throw a splitter grenade at you and each splitter is a CC.......how many do you evade ? Those splitters also cover a huge area like most CC abilitys so position yourself the best you can.


    As you can see using CC requires as much skill as throwing said grenade. So there is no reason why countering CC should be harder then using it.
    Let's not use a unbalanced example of something that is not even in the game. Let's use a example like hun batz sense he is very known for CC. 1.where are you? 2. What game mode is this. 3. Who I'd your God? 4. Did you ward? 5. What are your relics? 6. What did you build? 7.what period of the game is this.

    Il give a example.
    "I was playing conquest I was using Zeus mid and I did not ward and I went up to clear lane and out of no where came hun batz. He used his ult on me. I didn't have my ultimate yet so I couldn't do anything about it. But I did have a relic so i used purification, so I had time to better prep myself for next time he did it. Next time he came to ult me I dropped my ultimate down and he died. But I was left with very little health."

    Venting example.
    "It's op when hun batz can just come and ultimate me instantly. There is just to much CC in the game it's ridiculous There was literary nothing I could do to avoid it. It's literary impossible to avoid some CC abilities. I just tower hug to not get hit by it. I always get stunned by ymir he is so Op"

    As you can see my first example gave a really detailed and realistic scenario where as my second example was pure vent. I'm pretty sure I could have avoided dieing by hun batz the first time of I just have warded.

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    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    To be honest your first example is worth nothing in this thread because its about CC countering items. And wards dont counter CC let alone protecting you from it in any case. Its nice that wards help you while in the laning phase to see ganks coming but what do wards do once the fights start ?

    My grenade example wasnt overpowerd because its the sad reality. There will be multiple CCs packet in an area at once which means your positioning is meaningless because the only safe position is somewhere out of combat.

    Telling us that wards help against CC is the same as saying protection helps agains carrys.
    Everything begins in darkness, and also ends.The heart is no different.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    I have to agreed on this one.

    Smite has changed drastically since the start of Season 4 and from my point of view is in a very CC driven meta.

    CCR doesn't really do much, given that just about every God in the game has a CC ability. And a lot of those abilities, outside of beads...have no counter.

    You can argue that skill will always prevail, and I can tell you right now...it doesn't.

    There will come a point where skill won't mean anything because you used your beads to escape one ability, only to be hit with 3-4 other CC abilities as soon as those beads wear off...why else do you think we have bead burner abilities?

    Heck a prime example of a bead burner is Ares, given a decent cool down, he can Ult to drop your beads and then Ult another 2 times (roughly) before your beads are back up. You can counter build items to an extent, but likely, other people on that team have heavy CC abilities so that if Ares fails getting people (due to CCR/Beads)...they can, because your beads are down and your ccr is likely on cool down [if it has one].
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    To be honest your first example is worth nothing in this thread because its about CC countering items. And wards dont counter CC let alone protecting you from it in any case. Its nice that wards help you while in the laning phase to see ganks coming but what do wards do once the fights start ?

    My grenade example wasnt overpowerd because its the sad reality. There will be multiple CCs packet in an area at once which means your positioning is meaningless because the only safe position is somewhere out of combat.

    Telling us that wards help against CC is the same as saying protection helps agains carrys.
    Ward's can help prevent you from being put in a position to be flooded with CC I explained that example with the second example.

    If hun batz was on my right and I didn't see him. And he jumps on my face and ults me with his huge AOE drum. I could have avoided that by simply placing a ward. I mean yes CC is in the game but there are ways to triumph over it. Yes Athena may come and taunt me but I can still kill her. Even as anubis you would think he couldn't do anything against ares. But if he ults I can drop my 3 and ult on him while he is doing it and watch him melt. Simply ganking ares from the start to fuck his late game is a counter to his ultimate. Counters to CC isn't just straight up no CC. preventing it and strategy is a counter as well. CCR isn't to stop CC it's to give you more time to escape or react to it.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Firstly CCR is great vs some Gods if you don't see it well that is your problem really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    To be honest your first example is worth nothing in this thread because its about CC countering items. And wards dont counter CC let alone protecting you from it in any case. Its nice that wards help you while in the laning phase to see ganks coming but what do wards do once the fights start ?
    .
    You spread out and rely on your guardians to get you out of trouble. There is khep, geb, hel, aphro who can do it no problem (its a team game there are 4 other players on ure team that can help), you make it sounds like you are 1v5, that might be your problem right there. There are several other counter initiate Gods in the game who can break combos hard or softly. Ganesha, agni, sylv, chaac to name a few. I mean if I play chaac and see a team mate about to get man handled by chain CC I just jump in and ult and take it from there. Yeah you counter CC with CC so what? That is how you win engagements, not with an item that renders half of the games spells useless, like I don't even.... What you expect here?

    Unless your warrior is far behind he can go in and just soak up shit and you can more safely go in after.

    CCR doesn't really do much, given that just about every God in the game has a CC ability. And a lot of those abilities, outside of beads...have no counter.
    Eh? Every slow can be countered. A lot of abilities can simply be jumped away from or over. And you can stay out of range of course. You can try and bait the abilities out. If you use the mathematical formula of range vs transversal speed and velocity of the cc projectile its not so hard to figure out the range in where you can operate to try and bait with lowest risk of getting caught. Of course both parties know the limits of this calculation its up to you to get the better end off it. Cause if you play your cards right there should ever only be one enemy God that can focus you at the time, meaning you gotta juke one players CC, or simply CC him first. If you have 3 Gods focusing you of course you will fail and die given same skill on all players.

    If you are in an area where its like bombs are falling all over left and right you are either in totally the wrong place, or you are a warrior that can gtfo with a CC immune ult like Tyr or smth and you are doing this as part of a bait to get their spells on CD timer for your team to jump in after and win the fight. Landing or juking a spell is mostly about expectation of movement, very few spells have the upper hand when it comes to cast time, range over the juker. Change is an exception and there are others but in most cases range or movement and waiting for the proper time is simply the solution. If you move and keep distance there is no way to land the CC on you, if all your team is low on CC and get outranged in every situation and out initiated. Well then you drafted like shit and no sorry there shouldn't be an item that allows a poor draft simply buy an item or click a button to force their way through a fight. There is one exception here that allows many Gods to insta initiate who normally can't. For example hun batz needs his bouncing moneky or his jump, two spells that are easy to see coming and then you can disperse and retreat as needed, anyway with blink he can get into position and cast ult before anyone has a chance of hitting their escape. That is why I started thinking blink is a problem at the moment. As long as there is blink we must have beads cause staying out of range simply doesn't work vs some Gods. But if there was no blink the number of Gods who can force initiation on you if you position properly is close to 0. I mean Odin without blink just keep distance and harass him down with poke, but with blink you can't even be in harass range without risking getting blinked on, so that is why they needed to introduce ghost relic. This relic wouldn't be needed if Odin hadn't gotten blink.

    If you get CCed and then get stomped in the face by 4 Gods the problem isn't CC, the problem is your positioning to begin with.

    here will be multiple CCs packet in an area at once which means your positioning is meaningless because the only safe position is somewhere out of combat.
    This is so weird. I mean if you take a fight in such an enclosed space and the enemy has "the concave" on you, ofc you are in for the shit. In conquest a lot about the mid game is claiming space. If the enemy claimed a strategic superior space of course you cannot just run in there and think you will win. Then you gotta be out of combat just as you say. You flank and you wait for the most potent dmg and cc to be cast then you go in, or if you see an opening on smth squishy in the backline you backstab them as the chaos in that enclosed space no one except maybe the warrior/guardian should be in ensues. There is no problem building a warrior to withstand most of what the enemy can throw at it. There are a few exceptions with nemesis and anubis who rips prots and deal a lot of dmg (maybe we should introduce an item that reverses the effects of prot shred as well?? I mean that shit ain't fun when you try and tank) but in general a warrior should be able to tank all that and use abilities to gtfo, this works until the late game where things gets more complicated as the dmg start getting to much for even full tank builds.

    If is a coincidence both of you have Kuku heads? One of the Gods that are extremely hard to get hold off without some CC and who lacks potent CC himself.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 10-01-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    Rocking the boat

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    i'm aware slows can be countered, the point I was making revolved around beads (since that was what some of the focus for the previous posts were about).

    ccr on items isn't always specific. it is generally just "here's a percentage of ccr, you figure out what it effects."
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameVeteranAzure View Post
    i'm aware slows can be countered, the point I was making revolved around beads (since that was what some of the focus for the previous posts were about).

    ccr on items isn't always specific. it is generally just "here's a percentage of ccr, you figure out what it effects."
    Yes beads isn't needed if you have proper counter initiation on team. Its a good extra measure of course but its not needed.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Chosen Ichimarou's Avatar
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    Alot of your points are sadly just wrong RockerBaby.

    First would be that you believe its fine to counter CC with even more CC. Ok fine then lets counter crits with even more crits. Or counter carrys with even more carrys. You see where this is going right ? We dont need more we need less.


    Another point is the "jump away" one. Yeah lets waste some valueable skills to counter CC. I ask you this simple question:
    "Ares uses his ult and no one has beads ready. Now 4 out of 5 gods use ult to counter Ares ult. Now no one gets killed who one the trade ?"

    Ares for example is great to bait out your ults just so he doesnt pull you and thats ALWAYS a win for Ares and his team. So wasting abilitys isnt a good point as you can see.


    Also given the way you wrote this text its purely about the SPL which you just watched. Watching doesnt equal understanding. The pros are always speaking with each other and each and every single team only waits for one single moment......the moment to strike with all they got.

    How many games have i seen by now where the game was finished just because of 1 fight. 1 fight that only was decided by the factor CC. Games that get decided just by one factor clearly show a balance flaw in the game. YOu made alot of points which seemed good but all of them have flaws in it. Its already proven that this game has to much CC.


    "If is a coincidence both of you have Kuku heads?"

    He was my first main back then when he was Ao Guang and when skill was needed to land CC. I use the avatar to honor my first main who had to move so Nu Wa could take his place.


    Why are you using a Thor avatar ? One of the meta gods with loads of CC you can land from a save distance ?
    Everything begins in darkness, and also ends.The heart is no different.
    Darkness sprouds within it- it growns, consumes it.
    Such is its nature.
    In the end, every heart returns to the darkness whence it came.

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