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Thread: More CC counter items.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Honoured Zellun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    Alot of your points are sadly just wrong RockerBaby.

    First would be that you believe its fine to counter CC with even more CC. Ok fine then lets counter crits with even more crits. Or counter carrys with even more carrys. You see where this is going right ? We dont need more we need less.


    Another point is the "jump away" one. Yeah lets waste some valueable skills to counter CC. I ask you this simple question:
    "Ares uses his ult and no one has beads ready. Now 4 out of 5 gods use ult to counter Ares ult. Now no one gets killed who one the trade ?"

    Ares for example is great to bait out your ults just so he doesnt pull you and thats ALWAYS a win for Ares and his team. So wasting abilitys isnt a good point as you can see.


    Also given the way you wrote this text its purely about the SPL which you just watched. Watching doesnt equal understanding. The pros are always speaking with each other and each and every single team only waits for one single moment......the moment to strike with all they got.

    How many games have i seen by now where the game was finished just because of 1 fight. 1 fight that only was decided by the factor CC. Games that get decided just by one factor clearly show a balance flaw in the game. YOu made alot of points which seemed good but all of them have flaws in it. Its already proven that this game has to much CC.


    "If is a coincidence both of you have Kuku heads?"

    He was my first main back then when he was Ao Guang and when skill was needed to land CC. I use the avatar to honor my first main who had to move so Nu Wa could take his place.


    Why are you using a Thor avatar ? One of the meta gods with loads of CC you can land from a save distance ?
    Using leap or dash to avoid a super dangerous CC ability like Hun batz ultimate is a waste of a valuable ability? e.o
    Loki is Balanced.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichimarou View Post
    Alot of your points are sadly just wrong RockerBaby.

    First would be that you believe its fine to counter CC with even more CC. Ok fine then lets counter crits with even more crits. Or counter carrys with even more carrys. You see where this is going right ? We dont need more we need less.


    Another point is the "jump away" one. Yeah lets waste some valueable skills to counter CC. I ask you this simple question:
    "Ares uses his ult and no one has beads ready. Now 4 out of 5 gods use ult to counter Ares ult. Now no one gets killed who one the trade ?"

    Ares for example is great to bait out your ults just so he doesnt pull you and thats ALWAYS a win for Ares and his team. So wasting abilitys isnt a good point as you can see.


    Also given the way you wrote this text its purely about the SPL which you just watched. Watching doesnt equal understanding. The pros are always speaking with each other and each and every single team only waits for one single moment......the moment to strike with all they got.

    How many games have i seen by now where the game was finished just because of 1 fight. 1 fight that only was decided by the factor CC. Games that get decided just by one factor clearly show a balance flaw in the game. YOu made alot of points which seemed good but all of them have flaws in it. Its already proven that this game has to much CC.


    "If is a coincidence both of you have Kuku heads?"

    He was my first main back then when he was Ao Guang and when skill was needed to land CC. I use the avatar to honor my first main who had to move so Nu Wa could take his place.


    Why are you using a Thor avatar ? One of the meta gods with loads of CC you can land from a save distance ?
    I don't get how striking at the best moment to win a game is wrong. CC is such a fundamental concept to all kinds of warfare and games similar to this. To kill something you keep it in place to focus to kill. You need CC to stop heals, jumps/dash, and so on. What would happen if we didn't have CC? People would engage and when people started getting low everyone would run away and heal, maybe loosing 1 guy in the process. There would be no team wipes, just one guy dying, his team retreating, the other team claiming objectives, wait for new 5v5 rinse repeat. It would be a snoozfest. Isn't it also better for viewers (for highlight etc) with one moment that decides the game then some drawn out fight where no one ever dies before someone makes a stupid misstake and dies and its a 4v5. Personally I get an game orgasm whenever I see a wombo combo, in smite or in dota. A 5 man blackhole in dota that wins a game yes plz give me. Yes it sucks to be on the receiving end, cause it sucks to get outplayed. If there was to little CC no one would ever die except when they seriously over estimate their own tank. Diminishing the enemies potential to fight is such a crucial concept, it can be by means of disease, artillery, fighting without supplies etc etc. In the middle ages people contaminated water to strongholds to make the people there so sick cleaning up would be less of a hassle. The manly duel 1v1 to the death with just a sword or one bullet/gun like in westerns etc is not war. In war you bring archers to suppress the enemy infantry, you can say that shit ain't fair, I came here to battle sword to sword, but you will loose unless you also get archers. Cavalry servers the same function, to blow hole in enemy lines and by brute force suppressing/stunning the infantry so your own infantry can clean up. Same thing with flashbangs and stun grenades, you can't take a building without it, but by your standards going in guns blazing is how warfare should be done? Why?

    Every CC in this game is avoidable, just keep range or hide behind a wall. Again if your team cannot take their team in terms of initiation and CC, you have been outdrafted. You skipped the cavalary, the archers, the flashbangs and such dirty tricks when they are there for you to use. Everyone has the same tools available, I get that you mean that it makes the game shit that we have these tools, but really what is the alternative? People just running around and never dying?

    Also if CC was the ONLY thing this game was about, hel would be picked or banned every game cause she can counter all CC just like that. Ares ults 5? Well group on hel and she can dispel everyone. What now? You have a God that ulted that did nothing and he is probably concaved by the enemy team.

    I'm shit with Thor even at X but I enjoy playing him at times, I like the avatar though, its the same avatar as I have in game that I got in a chest ages ago (well almost the same).

    Yeah ares ulting 4 or 5 people is not what you want to happen, that is again a problem with positioning not CC itself. BTW how does an ares even land a 4-5 man ult? Personally I think its blink that is the problem. Tell me how ares ults 4-5 people without blink?

    Also A jump to get away from CC is different. If they have an ares you spread out simple as that. You only allow him to at max grab 2 and one of these can beads and the other can use their CC immune ult. Your team ain't far behind after that.
    Last edited by RockerBaby; 10-04-2017 at 02:55 PM.
    Rocking the boat

  3. #33
    Senior Member Honoured Zellun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockerBaby View Post
    I don't get how striking at the best moment to win a game is wrong. CC is such a fundamental concept to all kinds of warfare and games similar to this. To kill something you keep it in place to focus to kill. You need CC to stop heals, jumps/dash, and so on. What would happen if we didn't have CC? People would engage and when people started getting low everyone would run away and heal, maybe loosing 1 guy in the process. There would be no team wipes, just one guy dying, his team retreating, the other team claiming objectives, wait for new 5v5 rinse repeat. It would be a snoozfest. Isn't it also better for viewers (for highlight etc) with one moment that decides the game then some drawn out fight where no one ever dies before someone makes a stupid misstake and dies and its a 4v5. Personally I get an game orgasm whenever I see a wombo combo, in smite or in dota. A 5 man blackhole in dota that wins a game yes plz give me. Yes it sucks to be on the receiving end, cause it sucks to get outplayed. If there was to little CC no one would ever die except when they seriously over estimate their own tank. Diminishing the enemies potential to fight is such a crucial concept, it can be by means of disease, artillery, fighting without supplies etc etc. In the middle ages people contaminated water to strongholds to make the people there so sick cleaning up would be less of a hassle. The manly duel 1v1 to the death with just a sword or one bullet/gun like in westerns etc is not war. In war you bring archers to suppress the enemy infantry, you can say that shit ain't fair, I came here to battle sword to sword, but you will loose unless you also get archers. Cavalry servers the same function, to blow hole in enemy lines and by brute force suppressing/stunning the infantry so your own infantry can clean up. Same thing with flashbangs and stun grenades, you can't take a building without it, but by your standards going in guns blazing is how warfare should be done? Why?

    Every CC in this game is avoidable, just keep range or hide behind a wall. Again if your team cannot take their team in terms of initiation and CC, you have been outdrafted. You skipped the cavalary, the archers, the flashbangs and such dirty tricks when they are there for you to use. Everyone has the same tools available, I get that you mean that it makes the game shit that we have these tools, but really what is the alternative? People just running around and never dying?

    Also if CC was the ONLY thing this game was about, hel would be picked or banned every game cause she can counter all CC just like that. Ares ults 5? Well group on hel and she can dispel everyone. What now? You have a God that ulted that did nothing and he is probably concaved by the enemy team.

    I'm shit with Thor even at X but I enjoy playing him at times, I like the avatar though, its the same avatar as I have in game that I got in a chest ages ago (well almost the same).

    Yeah ares ulting 4 or 5 people is not what you want to happen, that is again a problem with positioning not CC itself. BTW how does an ares even land a 4-5 man ult? Personally I think its blink that is the problem. Tell me how ares ults 4-5 people without blink?

    Also A jump to get away from CC is different. If they have an ares you spread out simple as that. You only allow him to at max grab 2 and one of these can beads and the other can use their CC immune ult. Your team ain't far behind after that.
    Your example with hel was a close case tbh

  4. #34
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellun View Post
    Your example with hel was a close case tbh
    She was the in thing at one point but how much is she picked in SPL atm? The MS team buff on 3 was what truly broke her and now I feel she is nicely balanced.
    Rocking the boat

  5. #35
    Senior Member Chosen KAKLAW's Avatar
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    CCR means that the time the enemy has to take to setup on a foe is reduced.
    That's why ccr boots on supports are so good. a 2nd ccr item makes you cap it so if you are all cc'd you are the first one to escape and counteract.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAKLAW View Post
    CCR means that the time the enemy has to take to setup on a foe is reduced.
    That's why ccr boots on supports are so good. a 2nd ccr item makes you cap it so if you are all cc'd you are the first one to escape and counteract.
    this is true, but honestly it doesn't really feel like anything is happening half the time, since more often than not you are getting hit my multiple sources of CC. some soft, some heavy...
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Chosen ZetoPL's Avatar
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    Im against any CC counter items buff, mainly because Conquest isnt Arena where Ares blinks you on cooldown. If you burned Beads in Conquest you are supposed to play more careful for another 130 sec(dont mention that you still have Aegis), its Ymir/Athena etc who makes you use active as a part of good strategy which allow them to focus this person in next teamfight.

    If HR introduce more CC counters then I bet it will be one big defense fight which result 10:5 teams stats within 40 minutes and everybody would be afraid/discouraged of ganking/diving when enemies will CC counter you anyway...

    Even now you can waste enemy Beads only to waste it again in another fight. CC counter is created to use it wisely, not mindlessly against the smallest danger.



    Also there is like 40% gods with CC immune ults.
    This feeling when your team is far behind and you have no prospects for late game but for some reason players still doesnt want to surrender - MOBA Cancer.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Chosen GameVeteranAzure's Avatar
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    to be fair, there aren't that many items with ccr...I think.

    so it isn't like there is a big chunk of items for you to disagree with.

    and yes we are aware this isn't arena where an Ares blinks in and ults to either burn beads or pull into death.

    but conquest is vastly different. ccr if anything, would be more useful there, than in arena.

    arena is wide open...so the chance of someone escaping a cc ability with ccr is much greater.

    but conquest for the most part is rather tight and narrow (even with the recent map changes)

    so should you get hit with cc you have less chance to escape due to people being able to better predict your movements and plan other cc abilities easier
    Yeah...Right...Sure...And I'm The King of England!
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  9. #39
    New Member Cupidhead Maxamune94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zellun View Post
    There is no CC in the game that just can't be avoided.
    Just to be nit picky here. Nu WA Ult + Gem of Isolation. UNAVIODABLE! There is nothing to save you from it, that isn't a hard counter like beads. Sure, it's just a slow.. but it is something fun I do to screw people over and let my team eat you alive.

    Just saying. Mr. Avoidable.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Chosen RockerBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxamune94 View Post
    Just to be nit picky here. Nu WA Ult + Gem of Isolation. UNAVIODABLE! There is nothing to save you from it, that isn't a hard counter like beads. Sure, it's just a slow.. but it is something fun I do to screw people over and let my team eat you alive.

    Just saying. Mr. Avoidable.
    Ok You could build winged blade and its still a non issue if we wanna go that far with it
    Rocking the boat

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